Hello and welcome to the RDM podcast.
My name is Rabbi Daniel Malinga.
What we consume has the capacity to affect us, body, soul, and spirit.
To discuss the issue of the invited two ladies from different ends of the spectrum.
One is Miriam, Mimo, Esther, you're very welcome.
Thank you, Rabbi.
She's going to give us her testimony concerning alcoholism.
And then on my left is Josephine, Jojo, Angel, a chef.
Chef, you're very welcome.
Thank you, Rabbi.
And of course, we have Michael Host, Afimani, ManiBags, McLean.
You're very welcome, sir.
Always good to be here.
We're just going to dive straight into the conversation.
Yep.
I'm very interested.
I've always wanted to have a discussion about this, and I'm glad that we have two people
who are going to come from a background of experience, and I'm going to start with
you, Mimo.
Just to get the people watching to know who you are, tell us about your story, especially
linked to becoming an alcoholic and how you got out of it.
Okay, so hi, everyone.
First of all, it's great to be here, Rabbi.
I'd like to start from you, Nyi, because I was never, like when it came to academics
at least, I was never confused.
I always knew.
This is, for me, I want to go into the arts, and then after that, I want to do journalism
and communication, so that was never a point of confusion for me.
So when I got to campus, like maybe some of you watching are, I didn't really take
keen attention to what I was putting in my body.
So if it was, oh, we are going to the bar, it's alcohol, and it was never something
I would think about, that, oh, this thing I'm consuming, it's bad, it has destroyed
lives before.
No.
I was like, this is the drink of that day.
You know, people are drinking, people are, I mean, it's normal, right?
But later on, as life continued, I realized what is normal is not always what is best.
And slowly by slowly, I did, I drank long enough in the nature that it became a problem.
I would find myself, you know, like I would go to class years, but I would go to class
with the intention of, okay, at this time, I go to class from this time to this time,
by this time I'm out, so I'll be able to get my first drink in by this time.
And literally, I would sit in my hostel room and just drink and black out, and for me, that
was life, right?
So of course, campus ends, because it doesn't last forever, like you might think, and I
found myself getting into working life, still having this problem.
Now, let me tell you guys something.
A lot of us in campus kind of think that, oh, it's fine, we'll drink and then when we
get, like when life gets serious, we'll collect ourselves and stop drinking, but that's not
how it works.
By the time you've been drinking a certain type amount of alcohol for three, maybe four
years, you'll find that you literally can't, your body in the nature cannot sustain itself,
but in the spiritual, I had reached a point where alcohol was sustaining my positive energy,
you know, my, like joy in a very toxic way.
So working life comes, I'm still struggling with drinking, and last year, see at a similar
time, maybe, I found myself actually having a liver disease.
I was trying to quit for about a year or so, doing my best guys, like these things of your
timing yourself, you don't want to have a free moment, you know, that thing they tell
us about.
I don't mind Devos workshop, you're trying, but it's not working.
And then when I got sick, and I was told to go on bed rest, because when it comes to
the liver, there's really not much you can do, but wait and pray.
I sat under the word, and I was relieved.
Amen.
So I'll stop here for now.
Oh, okay.
All right.
And Jojo, your story, did you always want to be a chef?
Yes, I've always wanted to be a chef.
I knew since I was 14, I think.
It was, I wasn't sure about it, because I knew how taxing it was going to be, like on
my body.
I had a lot of health issues growing up.
And so when I was embarking on it, everyone was like, are you sure about this?
Do you think that you can do this?
And around the time before I went to college, there was that option of pursuing journalism,
because I'm a writer, and then there was idea of pursuing culinary.
And I was like, I'm comfortable with writing.
And I remember God telling me, coming to me and said, but culinary is where you will learn
how to trust me.
And indeed, it was like the worst three years of my life, but it was where I learned how
to trust God.
And so, yeah, I think it was always something I had to do.
Okay, ladies, you know, because both of you are dealing with consumption, but from a different
angle.
I'll start with you, Mimo.
Where is the spiritual side and the spiritual effect?
Okay.
What is the spiritual effect of alcohol on a person?
Okay, so I think the best point to start is the fact that if you're a Christian, you
know that there's God-given joy, there's God-given peace, there's God-given success.
But the thing that alcohol tries to confuse us about is that it comes in to try and be
a counterfeit for God's joy.
So you find that because it appears easier to get, right?
Like you go to a shop, you buy, you drink, yeah, done.
But now with God's joy, to go into the house of the Lord seeking His presence, now for
some people, and for most of us, you know, especially when, you know, you're young in
the spirit, you eat alcohol is easier.
It's easier.
It's more, you know, it's more reachable.
But also the people around you at that time, that's what you see.
Let's look at all the music videos everywhere you go.
People are drinking and they are smiling and they are laughing and they are dancing.
So what does that equate to in your mind?
They're happy.
But you see, it's a counterfeit.
It's a counterfeit happiness.
It doesn't last.
It's fake.
So it's like, you know, like with a fake bag, you buy a genuine bag, it's going to last.
But what do you say to a person who says, listen, I'm not, I don't want to be a drunkard.
You know, I just take a little bit of wine here and there.
And if I'm to take a UG, you know, just a sip here and there, I'm doing no one in your
home.
What do you tell that person?
A person like that to me is like someone who's on the fence.
Like have you ever been there and you're like, you know what, I'm not inside that house.
Like I'm not jumping over the fence into someone else's compound, but I'm at their fence.
So it's, how do I put this?
It's as simple as being pushed there.
A small, even if someone just shouts there at the gate and scares you, you end up in the
person's compound.
So that's the thing about alcohol.
You know, they say that devil is like a roaring lion, you know, looking for who he may devour.
When you decide to kind of entertain the presence of alcohol in your life, it's like you saying
that you know what, I am going to be around.
If he comes by, it's very easy for him to devour you because he, you have this, there's
an entrance you've given him kind of a leeway, a loophole into your life.
A foothold.
Yes.
But when you, when you decide that, no, it's the same thing.
And it's really, when you look at it, it's like with most of the things that we deal with,
if you kind of harbor and entertain something, maybe I'll say this for like the gentlemen
who are married, you know, if you, for example, entertain someone, you're not doing anything
with them, but you know, they have a thing for you and they're just lingering around.
Right?
Yeah, you will say you're not doing anything, but how long will it be before you do anything
or before someone is tempted to do something?
So that's really my take on that.
But your view, your view on alcohol is totally different as a chef.
It's very different.
Okay.
It's very different, like it's very different.
I don't drink and I walk in a bar.
Okay.
I spend so much time with people out patting, having a good time.
And I realized that people who have issues with drinking really have not taken an inventory
of themselves and what they can and can't handle.
I don't drink because I knew young, from an early age, it was just something that bothered
the family.
Like it was something that was around.
Was it religious or?
It was, it wasn't religious, but it was, it was, it was an observation.
We do not consume alcohol well.
Like it's not a thing.
Like so many people have been taken up by it.
And when I started drinking, when we were young and would go out and we'd party, I was
like, I don't like myself when I'm drunk.
It's not something that when I wake up in the morning, I'm proud.
Like I'm like, no, it's like there's something here.
But when you go out in the morning with your friends, it's a social thing and everyone
is doing it.
And that's the, I always say, you guys are going to die from, we're already here.
Like this, we're already here.
We're all doing it.
Let's just keep going.
I had to like take myself out of the fold and be like, I'm very focused on becoming
the person I want to be.
And this is not it.
And it was very hard when I was young, where I was like trying to figure myself out and
I create that stamp and say, I don't do that.
So you had your own standards that you set up.
Yeah.
Nice.
This is an interesting session.
Drink and food, that combination, if it was practical, not the alcohol beat, but if it
was practical, it would have been much more fun.
But yes, it's going to be more fun because I want to bring up a scientific and spiritual
approach to both worlds.
Okay.
And I'm glad that when you guys were speaking, you hinted on that because then other is at
Bionnan Island.
But alcohol, I did some research in preparation for this.
And I found that there is a big school of thought that believes the word alcohol has
actually an Arabic, okay, founding and yes, what it meant was it, it came from the word
alcohol, alcohol, which means body eating spirit.
Okay.
Now, not like those stories that you hear of a monster and whatsoever, but ideally what
they're saying is when you look at the essence of alcohol, the way it behaves, okay, it's
supposed to extract the essence of something.
And this is why even in medicine, it's used to sterilize things and stuff like that because
it's supposed to take out something.
Now, what people don't understand is that when you consume alcohol, if it's doing this
in the physical, then the question should be, what is it doing from the spiritual perspective?
And this is where what you guys have talked about comes in because it's going to create
a portal, something that Rabbi just thought about on Friday.
It creates a portal because then it creates an environment that was not meant for your
soul to exist in.
And so now your soul has to find somewhere to exist, but it cannot be in this environment.
So it's there, but it's far back.
It's far behind.
And so what the environment that has been created is now for evil spirits or spirits
which are not invited to come in.
And that's why everybody who ends up being drunk, unless otherwise, the results of drunkenness
are always on the negative.
There's nothing positive about it.
And so even when you wake up, even biblically, and that's why when you wake up like you're
saying in the morning, you sit back and say, but I didn't do that.
I don't like what happened because that wasn't ideally you.
It was another being inside you operating through your body, which is literally a vehicle.
You understand?
But just before I throw it back to Rabbi, for me, when I was listening to your stories,
when I look at alcohol and the spirit of man, it affects your frequency, okay?
And when I look at food and the spirit of man, it affects your vibration, you understand?
So when you're taking alcohol and you intoxicated, okay, it will shut you off.
And that's it.
Only junk food to a certain level is what can try and shut you off, but it mostly affects
your vibration because then when you eat, you feel good, and you feel happy, and you
feel that and what so and it's positive you don't lose yourself because you've eaten
passe.
You're still, you can still identify that this is me, I know what I'm doing, but it
just gives you a certain kind of vibe, you know?
And for me, so that's how I wanted to look at this world of drink and food, just for
an introduction.
But, you know, because your story was so powerful because you didn't tell us how long.
How long did you, how long were you an alcoholic?
So I struggled with alcohol, alcohol intake really for about, I'll say five years.
From what age to what age?
I'll say 18, because you know, 18 is usually where it, from the most of the stories I have
people interact with 18 is where it like flares up because of the crowds you're in, you're
entering.
So peer pressure.
What you're like, what's, what's, what are people doing?
What have I been missing, you know, in the at home?
But it, you usually kind of, the people who actually come to a realization, they come
to a realization of it after campus that, eh, I'm hooked, you know, I'm in this bondage.
Most times after campus, now the decisions made after campus, it's kind of, it's whether
you get yourself out or you dig yourself deeper because remember now you're making money.
Now you're, you're free, people are, some people move out of their parents' homes fully,
things like that.
So it's, it's, that's around the time where I started to attempt to work through it.
To work through it.
But let me, let me ask a question.
So I, I meet a lot of people who tell me, I can handle my liquor, you know, it's a lie.
Can we say then that if someone can't survive without a particular thing, they, they are
addicted to it?
Because what we usually think is alcoholism is the effect that we see on particular people.
So if I don't see you staggering, you know, like a drunkard, so I conclude, you know.
No, but you still think is, and alcohol has a different effect on everyone.
We're going to, actually, just to add onto that, you're going to say, so what's the difference
between the effect alcohol has on a person and the effect drugs have on a person?
I think when it comes to alcohol, first of all, people have, they are different.
There are people who can literally drink and just sit there.
But the thing is, it's not always about what they are doing in their physical.
What's happening in their minds?
What's that decay?
That's it.
What are the thoughts they are now entertaining?
When you look at people who have eventually gone on to murder people, all of them had
some sort of addiction.
Serial killers from back then, let's, they recently made a Netflix documentary about
drama.
Jeff Redama.
But when you look at his story, it started with alcohol abuse.
He's there, he's abusing, he's drinking alone again, the loneliness, he's alone, he's drinking
all that time.
Maybe sexuality was within him, but all that is being dealt by alcohol, but allowing what
to come up, right?
Because you might doubt your frustration, but what are you allowing now?
And I need, I need to emphasize, as I bring these guys in, I need to emphasize that we're
not saying, and I have to make clear, so for example, someone can be addicted to sex, but
sex is not evil.
Someone can be addicted to alcohol, but it's not that alcohol is evil.
But there is a spirit that creates an addiction to something.
And that's, that's what we're actually trying to deal with.
Actually, before I bring in Maki, because I know you, it's very interesting because
when we had a discussion, and then we're going to bring in your food, but when we had a discussion,
you said something that I found interesting.
You said that there are types of people that get addicted, okay?
So everyone can drink, but it's a particular type of person that gets addicted to drinking.
And the same is true with drugs, and also the same is true with food, okay?
So tell me about that.
I think it's very interesting.
So I think for me, again, I'll put a disclaimer because these are my personal observations
and observations that, and like what she was saying, that, you know, dependency, I do think
there are particular personalities that are more inclined to be dependent on certain things,
forms of, you know, drugs.
So for example, I found that people who do, for example, cocaine tend to have an anger
inside of them, that's just there, but, and you can't tell because these are not things
where you're going to say, hey, those people, that person is loud, they have an, no, but
they are there, those internal battles they have.
I also tend to find that people who tend to be dependent on alcohol are people who have
a lot of, they have a lot, they would say, they could say, not necessarily from a shy
perspective, but more from a pain perspective.
So they're going through some.
They are going through things, but they can't talk about it.
That's why if you notice there are certain people who, when they drink, they tell you
their issue.
They tell you things, they are breaking down over things that happened three, four years
ago, but they haven't had an avenue.
You know, these are people, they might even have very huge responsibilities in their day
to day life, so they don't have the leeway to just an outlet.
Yeah, maybe just to mention one more.
People tend to get addicted to what I think people go with those people.
Normally are people who just want kind of the noise to stop like they just want to be
there by the person who does with they'll never tell you their problems.
Yeah, they're different from the alcohol.
Yes, for them, they just want to be high and be there.
They want the world to stop moving, to stop having so much going on and just be there.
Maki.
Yeah, this is an interesting discussion, by the way.
What I'll contribute to this is, and again, I love picking on on the conversation, because
the fact that you bring up that in terms of there is something else that is causing this
trigger of addiction, OK?
We've made it clear, addiction is not a bad thing.
It's just what you're addicted to, OK?
And what can be addicted to Jesus?
Yes, you can be addicted to prayer, you can be addicted to your wife or your husband.
That's nice. That's a good addiction.
But the ultimate goal, OK?
And now if we go back to the introduction that I gave of it affecting your soul and we look
at this, that alcohol is doing, it's basically affecting and influencing the functions of
your soul, part of the human, OK?
So your speech, your thought, your like all these emotions and stuff like that.
That's the soul part of you.
I think for me, the thing that the question that somebody who finds himself in such a
situation should be asking is, why is this seeming to be a solution, one avenue for me
to be able to do what I cannot do naturally?
Because this is how the devil operates.
He'll give you, and this is what you said.
He gives you a counterfeit.
He gives you something that feels like, that seems like.
So if you cannot express yourself freely, like you're saying, you can talk to people
freely and whatsoever, look, don't stress it.
Just take a little bit of this.
You'll get the momentum that you need.
And now you can speak confidently and stuff like that.
But the ultimate goal is not for you to have the confidence and speak.
It's to get you hooked.
And then he comes to steal, kill and destroy.
So the introduction, your first drink is the stealing bit, the pickpocketing, which has
started, you know, because everybody who is a drunkard started with first, the one bottle.
The moment you picked up that first bottle, you were knocking on that door, you know?
And so that's, you had something to say.
Yes, it's like, it's the same thing with food.
Most people eat even when they're not hungry because the mouth is a pleasure center.
And it's why you're eating.
It's sometimes it's just to have fun.
You're just, the food is luxury to some people.
So it's just enjoying flavors, enjoying the ambience, bringing people together.
But the same thing with alcohol, it's like, why are you picking up the drink, right?
So people, when you're out with them, they'll tell you, don't drink if you're
depressed or if you're sad because first deal with that, because then that will be
a way for you to deal with your depression.
Like you said, a lot of people that drink are more depressed.
A lot of people that smoke are more anxious.
And that's the same thing with food.
Most people eat mainly because it reminds them of something.
Mind them of a time when they were comforted by their parents.
I always say people's dish, favorite dish has something to do with like a mother.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Yeah, because everybody's mother is the best food.
Our grandmother.
If you can recreate it, it's not about the ingredients of the dish.
It's about trying to recreate that moment for them where they feel taken care of
and nurtured and loved.
So even if you do it completely poorly, they'll be like, this is the best dish ever.
And you're like, no, it's not like you just feel that there's this attachment
that you have now to this environment.
And yeah, so that's the thing about pleasure.
You know, you know, let's let's let's look at the Bible for a moment.
People think food is just food, but from from a biblical perspective,
if you go to the book of Genesis, the purpose of food and drink was not to quench thirst or hunger.
Because Adam and Eve were not hungry and thirsty in the Garden of Eden.
And yet they could pleasure themselves in eating and drinking.
So the true essence of it was was for pleasure.
And if you look at the fruits in the Garden of Eden,
there was a tree of knowledge of good and bad that had fruit.
OK, you have the tree of life that had fruit.
And from that we can we can we can get the implication that there were other trees of hope,
of joy and so on and so forth.
That means many of these things.
And you know, when the fall occurred, these foods that God had created,
they everything on earth lost its true nature because of the fall.
But there's still those invisible ingredients that God put in in food that we receive.
That's why there's something you can eat that can help your memory.
There's something that you can eat that will give you strength.
OK, so it's it's a dimmed version.
Correct. But it's still in there.
Now, this is very important because.
What you eat is is important.
But.
Who cooks?
Is just as important as what you eat.
And you're a chef, you know, they say that people don't realize that actually
we pass on essence into things.
OK, the reason why I would love my mom's food is because there's an invisible
ingredient that is passed on to it.
It's not like you said, the ingredients.
So if if I'm angry with you and I cook food, it will not taste the same.
And you tell me this.
Because you're you're you're a professional.
So chefs are taught to.
To you tell me.
So they're taught to provide a particular dish in a particular way.
And to provide a particular they're looking for a particular taste.
And we talk about because when we were talking about this, she told me how.
And I watch sometimes if you've watched, there's a movie called the menu.
Oh, my goodness.
There are people who eat food to eat.
Then there are those who eat food to taste it.
So tell us more about that.
And also add on to the fact that essence can be pastored food if you can.
Yes.
Well, it depends on how like upbringing is very important, right?
It depends on how you are taught to look at food.
Most people are taught to look at food as as fuel, right?
It wasn't about taste.
It wasn't about anything.
It was about this is what we can afford.
This is what will give you strength for the next day.
And so when you go out with people, you see how they eat.
So you as a chef, you can tell when someone is just eating for what?
For fuel.
Yeah, for fuel, because if you sit down with someone and they're just eating
and they're like, they're just trying to finish the food, you're like, oh, OK.
And most times you'll find that either went to boarding school
and things were rough and tough and had to eat at a quick time.
And you're like, OK, this person is not going to taste any flavor.
The only critique they'll have is the food hot.
Is it a lot?
That's it.
And then I know a few people like that.
The food must be hot and a lot and we move.
Then you meet people who were taught to look at food differently,
like most of their family functions were out at a restaurant
or they had treats where their parents would bring them something to eat.
They look at food as a good time.
So they take their time when they're eating.
They enjoy the flavors, the textures.
It's not about whether or not it's just hot or not.
It's also not about the amount, right?
Yes, it's about the quality.
And that's why when we watch most of these chef shows, they put.
Fine dining.
I'm sorry.
And that's the thing about fine dining.
It's it's small portions of like high quality food.
All right.
So it's not about you getting full.
It's about you experiencing something.
There's a chef who like he has a whole course where it's like a pillow with like basil.
And it's just powdered and you if you can't smell, you can't taste.
And so for him is just trying to involve all your senses.
It's a whole experience.
They show it's an art and there are very few people
who can actually enjoy the art of food.
And enjoy it and see it as a luxury.
And so, yeah, but even when it comes to who has cooked in the kitchen,
we have we have different talents.
Like we have chefs who are like grill masters
and people who are like very good at precision, a pace.
I'm a better pastry chef than I am culinary chef.
And I hated that like I hated that because I'm slow.
And it takes time to create a pastry product
you'll make a croissant for three days.
A croissant for three days.
Because you're going to my soul is like this safe three days.
OK, go on.
Yes, we're going to do like the lamentation process, put it in the fridge,
bring it out, do it again, put it in the fridge.
It takes so many hours.
But at the end of the day, the last thing you want to do
after cooked for three days is have someone just swallow the food.
Yeah, without going through the experience, I made those layers.
So that's how it is.
So when we're in the kitchen and you see everyone's talents,
it's it's coming from something inside them.
Grilled masters are very good with like fire and temperature control.
And for them to be in a place where you're like heated environment,
they just they just have this feel about like meat
and how it should be marinated and how it should be.
And it's usually the most I want to say
in the nicest way, the most unstable human being.
And like it's the most unstable.
And I always say that if you would find that most chefs,
a lot of chefs like in high industry, they survive on cocaine
because it's an opera, cocaine, coffee, energy drinks, right?
That's for me, it was just energy drinks and coffee.
But most of them, it's it gives them the energy
they need to be in a hot, very heated environment
for yelling, orders, you're moving.
So when you find a grill master who can walk in that environment,
there's something wrong with him in the outside world
that he can function so well inside inside that.
And he can actually manage to get meat, not to be dry,
but to be flavorful and have the perfect.
So when you sit down and you talk to them,
you'll find that they are very jittery.
They like when things are intense and heated and
and you're like, oh, so good fun, the perfect place to put you
because outside you would have been like diving out of place.
Well, they do drugs and not alcohol, for example.
Alcohol slows you down.
OK, OK.
It makes you sloppy and loud.
And when you're in the kitchen, you have to be exact.
They say it's an exacting act.
So even when you're walking with knives, you can't be sloppy.
You're going to lose a finger,
but you have to be sharp and a lot because I gave some on the scenario
of like, this is what a kitchen looks like.
You have 17 orders coming in, right?
Everyone is responsible for different parts of one meal.
Right. So when the head chef is at the pass yelling,
I have five steaks, three medium rare, two well done.
I have potatoes, mashed potatoes.
And all of us, we have to hear what's happening.
So I can't say, oh, what did you say?
I just have to keep going.
So if you're in the hotter section of the kitchen and you hear five medium,
five medium steaks, two well done, you can't do anything.
You just have to start, work, move.
And since everyone is working in sync, if you fall off,
you're responsible for that plate going bad. Wow.
So you have to be a lot.
You have to be quick.
You have to be exact or you're going to get yelled at and you're on your feet
for 18 hours. So you get where the need to be.
It's not normal. It's not a no.
So becoming a chef's don't have a life literally.
They don't.
That sounded like a war room experience.
All that pressure and what you have, all those commands,
that's like a typical control room, you know, when you're in the hot zone
in a red zone, that's how everything, everything happens.
But you see, when when we're talking about people passing on essence of food,
you know, the interesting thing is all of us have experienced that.
Well, we've had people when they've actually said, for example,
when people make statements of this food was cooked with love, you know,
and when they say that what they actually mean is it tested so nice that
there's just something about it.
And then there are times when you can test the same person's food
and this can only happen when, like, like she's saying, when you're attentive
to it, OK, and you can actually engage your test buds, OK,
you engage your whole emotions in it.
And you you can tell when something is off that this food is off.
And that's how sometimes you can actually tell if, let's say, if you're a married
man and you eat your wife's food just to be clear,
you can tell that she wasn't the one who prepared this food.
Or she's not feeling. Yes. OK.
Yes. My wife have we talked about this and we just agreed.
You understand just for the peace of everyone because I'm a creative
and I'm going to come to that and how chefs I believe fall in that way.
And you love to cook as well. Yes, I said.
If we have a fight, let's just agree.
Don't waste your time to cook food because I'm not going to eat it.
Why? Because I know it's not going to be coming from a place of that genuine love.
You understand? So you will just be doing it out of responsibility
because I have to do it, you understand?
Because what's going on in your mind is eventually transferred into the food.
And when I eat it, I don't want to have
effects that I never fully understood, you know?
So for us, that was just the understanding.
But it's coming from the place of essence can be passed on to food.
Now, coming to the part of chefs and being creatives,
I picked that up when you're speaking, because for me, it seems like
this food and drink has something.
They seem to have a strong attachment to creatives, per se.
That's true.
There's a strong attachment to creatives when it comes to food and drink.
Because what you're explaining in terms of how chefs on the outside world,
it doesn't seem like they are no more per se.
That's the challenge that every creative goes through.
Because most times they're operating in a world that can seem different
from the normal world that people are used to.
So they need a particular environment to bring out the best of themselves.
And when we don't understand that, and that's why we're saying
it's important to know what it is you're consuming, what it is you're eating,
because ultimately it's going to shift your energy somewhere.
It's going to direct your creativity or whatever.
It is that you are destined to do somewhere.
Robert, I want to ask just before you pick up.
For people who, let's say, say, OK, guys, I hear you.
I'm watching the podcast. That sounds fine.
OK, OK, but you guys don't get it. OK, I'm a creative.
I'm an artist.
When I take certain kind of drinks, spirits, just little,
it gives me the psych I need to even become more creative.
You understand? So where is the evil in that?
Where is the wrong in that?
I'll throw that to me.
You'll throw that to me.
OK, so I think with me, you know, for something like that,
the main question would be who gave you that talent, right?
That's powerful. Was it the drink or was it the creator?
Come on. So I think at the end of the day,
I realized that a lot of people, you know, like he said, creatives,
we face pressure.
And by the way, just because creatives can look like we are feeling what creatives
have pressure with that client, with that deadline, you see him there.
He's just it's because he doesn't have anything to put there,
but it's not that he doesn't feel the pressure.
So what I would say for a creative is really depend on the one who gave you
your gift. Don't look for a counterfeit thing
that will end in tears because it's not the one that blessed you with that thing.
So it cannot sustain it.
God sustains what he has given.
If he has given you a gift, he will sustain it, not the drugs.
OK, so before I ask, does anyone want to add to what he asked?
Yeah, I understand when you need a little fuel to what you're doing
creatively, in a lot of ways, when we are trying to create, we listen to music
in the early stages of my walk, there were things where I couldn't listen
to secular music because it would interrupt
how I had God and it would interrupt the atmosphere.
And I was trying to create and keep an atmosphere of God.
Now that I'm going, I listen mostly to Afro beats before I go to work,
because I know that they generally like I can still hear God within that environment.
Nice. Like I can come on.
I nothing can distract me.
Can be in the middle of a club and God says, by four, please leave.
And I'll be like, OK, at four, I'm going.
And I feel like there's no place now that I can't hear God.
So there's nothing I can be more dependent on than God.
So now it just comes about.
It just it when you're trying to.
Encourage a flow, right?
It's yeah, little whiskey is fine.
I don't drink mainly because that's my agreement with God,
but I understand what whiskey does.
It helps with digestion, so when it does wine,
I understand that they come, let me ask,
how much whiskey would help in a digestion?
So if I've just had a heavy meal, yeah, yeah, like one glass.
OK, yeah. So if someone takes a second glass,
it has the reason for digestion has come to an end.
But now it can be.
It can be just you're supposed to enjoy this life.
It can just be just enjoyment.
It's nothing that you are emotionally attached to.
It's just enjoyment.
It's the same way we wear nice clothes or have a nice car.
It's not that my whole life is dependent on this.
It's just and it's a pleasurable experience,
but also knowing to cap it, right?
And that's that's where I think a large percentage of the issue is.
And I remember I had a discussion with you about the strategy
because you see the people, especially within the area of alcohol
and maybe drugs as well, but specifically alcohol,
the people who the companies that are selling these things,
they are looking to make money and so they need more people to drink
and the more people that are addicted.
Yes, I mean, the better the better.
And you said there's a strategy they came up with.
You talked about cider.
Just I wouldn't know when it comes to the strategy,
I wouldn't say that because, you know, in life,
sometimes the things we are doing have a huge effect in the universe,
that as we are doing it just to let's cash in, let's make profit.
That's what.
But what I see these days is that a lot of us really are using,
you know, alcohol as a status symbol
as a mark of achievement.
We're using it to celebrate things as if you're not already high
on the joy of achieving the thing.
But you see, like we are it's being it's being used to
tune people in a way that it's used for joy.
I feel if you're at a party, it has to be there.
If it's not at the party, what what do you mean?
It's a party. It's a sign of wealth.
It's a sign of wealth.
It's like a cabinet there with, you know,
skis or wines as old as when.
But the reality is that
those are not supposed to be the things that make you feel like you've achieved something.
Those are not supposed to be the things that like she was saying,
fine, there are certain things you get yourself for pleasure.
Let's say, oh, in life, when I achieve this,
I want to buy myself a rosary or something like that.
But the thing is now they are being attached to things that
we face in our everyday life.
Let's talk about people who say, oh, when I've had a hard day, I need a beer.
Right. That's your everyday life.
Some people have extremely stressful jobs.
You'll find them that every day they are drinking.
And this is what happened to me.
It wasn't the job, but because I drank every day,
I did it enough in the natural that became a spiritual thing.
Yes. OK. Yeah.
So now when it comes to like the lighter drinks,
people are really trying to romanticize alcohol.
Something McLean said is how alcohol lives way for spirits.
Has anyone ever asked themselves why the harder forms of alcohol are called spirits
to begin with?
But more importantly, now people are dialing it down to like five percent.
What before you know it, people will be taking minimal amount of alcohol in juice.
Now, when it becomes an everyday thing, remember, it will no longer.
What happened with me was I started with beers,
but you can only take so many beers after sometime you move to the harder spirit.
After that, you know, you have to like you have to keep going.
That's the thing about it, especially for us who are chasing something
who are dependent on it.
We felt we feel the need to keep going
to get higher and higher and higher.
But at the end of the day, the way I see it, the strategy right now
is the younger they are hooked, the longer they drink.
And you talk about these lighter drinks, like give us an example.
Yeah, there are drinks that we are not drinking.
Ha ha ha.
So they are sweet and they are like minimal alcohol.
So minimal.
But the thing is that minimal alcohol for a kid of like, what, 17, 18,
it will just push them into more.
Remember, we know this now because at least for myself, I'm now in my late 20s.
But someone who is just starting campus,
they don't understand that just go by its words.
Just peer pressure looking clean.
It's OK, it's just five percent.
In fact, it's three percent.
In fact, but before you know it, you're hooked and you have friends like that.
Yeah, no, no, no, you can you can.
Oh, yeah.
Yes, yes, I do.
But more importantly, I think for me, I look really lower.
I try to look lower because the only way it starts from.
They know at this point, sincerely speaking, with all the things you've seen,
you know, but there are kids, there are people who don't know,
like they've never seen a drunk person.
And if they have, they assume that this person, they don't know, you know,
because that's what I used to assume whenever I would see like really drunk
people on the street when I was young, I'd be like, what an irresponsible person.
You know, like you're there, you're thinking these things.
But the thing is, you don't know the bondage that you eventually get him.
So for me, the way I see it, you would rather leave it
and know that there is no room for it to become bondage
than for you to have it there in minimal doses,
but with a window for it to become bondage.
And it's that window I'm going to use to bring in my point,
which is which, which it was right there.
Just had to make use of that, like it was right there.
So now they are selling alcohol
and saying, oh, yeah, we understand it's addictive.
And let's really try and be part of the solution.
So let's turn it down. Let's make it five percent.
But the reality is they're actually not doing that.
They're never going to turn it down.
What people don't understand is it's just like when you're in business,
no one gets in business having an opportunity to expand
and sees what these can do and says, you know what?
I can see what this can do.
I think I'm just going to work up tomorrow and close shop.
No one does that.
So there's a strategy behind it,
which is part of the marketing.
But also when it comes to the future of alcohol,
when we are talking about the future of alcohol,
now it's moving towards psychedelic drinks.
OK, now less of the natural feel addiction
because ideally they understood and this is what was hooking people
that it made you feel a certain way, gave you a certain kind of vibe
and stuff like that. OK.
And that's what keeps people going back to alcohol
because it gives you that.
Now the world came up and started making noise like for smoking.
People started to make noise or no, it's killing people.
It's causing addictions.
They say, remember the advert for Bell, they will make your night
and your horns will be bright.
OK, morning.
You know, so people started to complain and said it's killing people
and stuff like that. They said, OK, OK, let's turn it down
and they introduced something else.
It's what's happening to the alcohol industry.
So five percent is what is introduced now.
But in the background, what they're doing is they are improving
psychedelic drinks and how do psychedelic drinks operate?
It's the same thing.
You, you know of Ayosuka?
Yes. Yes. OK.
So yes. So those psychedelic drugs are what are now going to be infused
into drinks, drinks.
So now it's no longer going to be an alcoholic drink.
It's going to be something else, but which will still have the same
effect like alcohol had, which, again, like we're saying, is still targeting your soul.
Not the pleasures it's giving you.
The ultimate goal here for the enemy is just your soul.
So whichever way he's going to approach it, it's going to end up on your soul.
And that's why the Bible says, well, that's why God talks about gluttony.
Greediness. There's a reason why he's going for the extreme.
Yes. Of things.
And that brings me to what I want to understand, because we've said
a little drink here, a little it is not bad.
But the Bible talks about drunkenness, not drinking, drunkenness
and then being greedy, gluttony.
So my question is from the spiritual perspective,
where is the mismatch or the error?
When the food that is supposed to give us pleasure,
that's supposed to make us experience life better and help facilitate,
you know, our body in this natural world.
Where does it cross from?
OK, this is acceptable, and this is now going overboard.
And it's going to point. Is it gluttony?
Yes, at one point, because we've we've exhausted for when it comes to alcohol,
it's quite clear. Everybody can see, OK, I think here that's where the problem is.
I want us to talk about the food.
So for me, it was understanding why God needed to be the center of things.
He wanted to have your heart before anything else.
I always say that some of these things are in pursuit of your heart.
God wants your heart.
And the moment he knows that he has your heart,
none of these things can affect you.
I always I told my friends that the only dependency I had was on coffee.
Like I can't wake up and not have a cup of coffee.
Like I need coffee.
And then I went away with them for like a couple of days.
And there was no coffee in the place that we were at.
And I was fine.
I was completely OK for days.
And I was like, I have not had coffee in days.
And I'm fine. I guess I'm not dependent.
And I remember God saying, because it doesn't have your heart.
It never did.
It was just a mental thing.
Yeah, it was just a mental thing.
And it was I was worried that that was the only thing I had dependency.
But because I'm so dependent on God at this stage in my life,
that everything else I can enjoy.
But if it's not there, it's fine.
Like I don't need it.
And that's where all these dependency people reach for food because they need it.
They need what it offers them, the comfort.
I feel good when I'm eating.
When I go out with my friends, I feel this is just where I love food.
I love bread.
It just makes me happy.
And that's where Gluttony comes in, where throughout the day,
each time they feel bad, any time they feel stressed, eat a snack,
they go to the fridge, they do stuff.
And it becomes this this crutch almost
to run away from whatever is making them feel sick.
So it's it has their heart because if you were to take it away from them,
it would be like a proper heartbreak.
It would be like they are really going through the worst heartbreak of their life.
And it will be towards food, either alcohol, either drugs.
And when you know that something has your heart,
you know that leaving it is going to be the worst pain you've felt.
Let me ask as a professional chef.
Does has it affected how you look at food and how you eat it?
Yes, very much so.
I don't eat food as much as I used to,
because first of all, I feel like my palate has changed.
And because I'm around food all the time and good food might I add
because they're always people cooking, it became normal.
It's just like when I go to a restaurant, I'm not like, oh, it's because I know how it's made.
I can do it at home. It's fine.
And I realize most people when they like like the way a restaurant cooks
or food is because they can't recreate it at home.
It's not something that they have one and every day.
But I have access to food all the time.
So in your course, your course, was there a health kind of side?
What should I call it?
Module?
Yes, health and safety, environmental awareness.
So you're taught about healthy foods?
Yes, like food and nutrition.
Now, going back to the essence of food, I found that people pray
when I was in culinary school, I found that people pray for food wrong.
OK, let's go. Now we're talking.
So when we sit down at a meal at all of us, grab our hands and they're like,
oh, let's pray for food.
Everyone is like, you said the same prayer without spirit.
Come on.
Food is medicine in a little ways.
An ancient, ancient culture.
Food is medicine.
So a lot of the food that you consume, how it's cooked and how it's consumed
can actually fix and solve a lot of things in your life.
So when you're praying for food and you're not actually instructing it
on what to do when it's in your body.
Yes, it's very wrong.
And so I felt like I didn't need to pray for food when I was at the table
because I was just like, eat.
And I realized when I'm cooking, I'm like, I hope I'm not cooking out
the nutrients for that, but show me how to make this the best like possible.
Especially when you're cooking things like there's a super food called quinoa.
Quinoa has like slow release energy throughout the day.
And you can. I want to jump in already, man.
And so when you're cooking, that you want that to be at its full,
fullest effect to help you throughout the day.
And most people don't do that.
They just eat, they just cook and it's it affects your life in a lot of ways.
There are foods, especially in Uganda, that have the ability to heal
liver issues, to heal kidney issues, even cancer, like reduce the symptoms.
So a man of God doesn't have to come and lay hands.
You can eat.
You can eat and you can tell the food.
I know what you do.
Yes.
Come and do it for me.
And people don't understand this much.
Yes. I love that you took the conversation in that direction, man.
I love the life of monks, so I've studied it a lot.
And one of the things that I found, they put a lot of emphasis on was food.
And so I also wanted to understand why and it's exactly what you're saying
because there is nothing that God created that was dead.
Correct. Everything has life, in essence.
So if you eat something else, let's say a plant or an animal,
in essence, you're consuming its life.
The life of a thing is in its blood.
Correct. And so when you're saying, for example, and we know this
because even in African culture, this is why our great, great parents
and even some of our parents would give us hubs because they had those healing
properties. OK. And that's why when you look at our great grandparents,
they lived longer, they had more healthier lives because they were still,
you know, hooked on to the real purpose of food and what it could do.
Now, I say that to bring in again the beat of greediness,
but also from where the food industry shifted that narrative
and introduced highly processed foods
that at the end of the day, like you're saying, the more the food is processed,
the less the natural nutrients.
And so what are you eating?
You understand? It's it's really nothing.
It's just a lot of rubbish packed in your body.
You know, I'd like to contribute to that, especially with my experience
trying to recovering from liver disease.
So one of the most shocking things is that, of course,
they always tell us this is organ that regenerates.
Yes. But the funny thing is the doctor, God blesses that he.
He told me what we are going to do is make dietary modifications.
Now, at first I was like, so I'm literally like I'm on God's mercy.
But when he told me, I didn't understand it then,
but listening to you and like recounting my experience,
I was told one not to eat certain foods
that they would put pressure on the liver.
I was told to take wasp.
There's a concoction, someone makes of wasp venom and honey.
And that was something I was taking a big spoon of twice once
in one big spoon three times a day.
And apparently wasp venom has regeneration properties,
so it aids in regeneration.
And then I was also told to take juice with pomegranate,
pomegranate juice, like things I had never had over.
But he called them dietary modifications.
Some things were removed, so not to drink milk, nothing with fats and things like that.
And that was literally my treatment.
Yeah, so I found that interesting when you mentioned that,
especially with because with the liver, the liver, you can't add more meds
because medicine puts strain, a strain on the liver that is already strained.
So with the dietary modifications, now I mean, I understand it more.
What about the people who say, you know, we live, you know, I think about this.
They will say, you know, I'm a child of God, a God said,
no, in the book of Genesis, you know, initially in the Garden of Eden,
if we study it, man was eating fruit.
We don't have to go into it.
But later after the fall, God tells Noah every green plant
as well as flesh that does not have blood in it, you can eat.
And God would not have to give that instruction
if you had already given it to Adam.
To Adam, it was told you can eat every green but not specifically meat.
And here we are.
Money is told, eat away as long as there's no what.
And so there are some Christians out there who are like,
what you're telling me, this is bad for me, this is bad for me.
I'm a child of God, you know.
You know, I have the revelation of God.
Whatever I eat will only give me strength.
I will not fall sick in Jesus's name.
What do you have to say to such a person?
They are right.
Like they are they are very right.
Everything that you eat has the potential to help you and aid you in some way.
I feel like no, the reason, no, what it actually has to offer you,
even like fast food, you can say that this is just I'm just eating for for vibes,
just to eat and and you know that.
But it can't be like where your main, you know, diet is.
So it's kind of just snow and balance.
That's the reason why they teach us like having a balanced diet.
Having a balanced diet and it encompasses everything in your life.
Just be balanced, strive for balance.
My wife told me this, that, you know, the people who go
when they overweight, they will go to gym to lose weight.
And my wife holds the narrative that you don't have to go to gym to lose weight.
I like your wife.
She's very right.
Very right.
You said that you just have to change the diet.
So there's food that can reduce your weight.
Yes, there's food and it's portion control.
What they say it's portion control.
Eat anything you want.
That's what the Chinese do, anything you want.
It's just in small amounts, small amounts and time it throughout the day.
Right.
So most people don't even know how much they consume now, like for alcohol.
I told people, you're going to the gym every single day.
Right.
You're buying all these calories and you come and you drink a glass of whiskey
that has like 58 calories.
So you're just putting back the calories.
What have you done?
A lot of these spirits, alcohol is filled with calories.
And that's the reason why when someone is like drinks, beer is the equivalent
of eating a loaf of bread.
You've eaten a whole loaf of bread in two beers and you're wondering
why you're putting on weight and it makes no sense.
So you might as well not go to gym if you're doing.
You have done nothing.
You have done absolutely nothing.
I agree.
It's like how people expect people who are addicted to alcohol to be small.
But it can't be because they are putting in a lot of calories.
And surprisingly, alcohol has a tendency to make you want to eat
the greasiest, most meat, really.
So that's why you find that a lot of people who have the means, right,
and drink a lot in taking a lot of fast food.
But is it true that the impact, especially of alcohol on women is different?
To the way it impacts men?
You know, they used to say that, you know, if a girl is being hard,
just give her a little bit of and lower inhibitions.
And that's where it comes from.
It's just lowering inhibitions.
I think men are by nature take risks.
They're always in that place.
Women aren't.
We're more cautious.
So we always have our guard up because about the world, you know,
so when you go to a bar, men will naturally just be like,
hey, we go here, we move this side.
Because women are like, hey, who's there?
Are we coming?
What time are we going home?
So if you if you find that kind of energy already, you like one glass of wine,
she's going to come down at least about where we are going, how we are going there.
So it just lowers the inhibitions of women because by nature, we just have our guard up.
OK, that's Maki had something to do.
Yeah, I was just going to say on the initial point that you raised of when someone says
I'm a child of God, I can just eat anything.
Well, I'll still quote the same Bible they're talking about.
The Bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge, knowledge,
what we're discussing here is knowledge, you understand?
And I like the point that she's making of at the end of the day,
it's really what you want or what you want to achieve, you understand?
And in doing that, if you were to touch a certain level of consciousness to it,
then there are certain additions you don't need.
And that's the element of gym that you're talking about.
I can I approve that message.
OK, I approve that message.
I'm a gym person, I'm a gym instructor as well.
So I approve that message.
You don't actually need to come to gym to lose weight.
The food can do that.
The same way you don't need to come to gym to gain weight.
When you come to gym, what we're actually doing is helping you gain muscles
and tone your body.
That's what we're working on, not for you to pack weight.
You want to pack weight?
That's not our business.
So it's it's just the lack of knowledge, you know, and how to apply it.
And because even us, when we, when, when, for example, we're advising
and, you know, trying to help people who want to pack some some weight or some
muscle and stuff like that, we also use the diet plans, specific foods
and these and that and don't do that, don't do this.
It's basically just playing with what you already have.
You understand?
So I think for me, even as we are almost coming to a close of this,
because we're already one and one hour and five minutes.
So we have roughly 25 minutes.
For me, it's just it comes down to at the end of the day.
What you're consuming, what is it coming into?
What void is it feeling?
What purpose is it coming in for?
You know, and at the end of the day, you yourself, what are you trying to achieve?
Because if you're in the in the club, you know, the bandwagon effect of
you just doing things because other people are doing things.
I think you need to check yourself.
Actually, you need to have a very important point because we said who cooks
is important, what you eat is important, but also who you eat with.
Yes.
From a spiritual perspective is also important.
You know, when Jesus was at the Bible says in Matthew 2626,
I need to look it up.
But he says, and so he's sitting with the disciples, the last supper,
and he's saying, this is my body.
Yes.
And so he's he's he's eating with them.
And the purpose of it is to create a oneness.
Actually, if you look throughout scripture, that if you eat with someone,
the Bible says that soul.
Soul was looking for somewhere.
Soul finds somewhere after the soul was looking for donkeys.
Find somewhere.
The moment somewhere who knew whose soul was supposed to be supposed to be
a king, the moment he sees him, he doesn't say, I've annoyed you as king.
He doesn't say that.
The Bible says, he says, come and I will tell you the secrets of your heart.
Then he takes him to eat.
And he says, the Bible says, and he set apart for him a certain portion of meat.
He set it apart and told him first eat, then we talk.
If you read the book of Daniel, the kids refuse to eat the king's meat
because eating is deeper than what you perceive it to be.
It creates a oneness.
I know people who, OK, now they're Christians,
but I know someone who was in the dark world and he said,
one of the easiest ways to impact someone was was you just sit with them
and have a meal
because there's an impartation that takes place with who you eat with.
It's not just come on, man.
You understand that.
And that's why the peer pressure thing is also important, because there's
that impartation that takes place when you're like with your buddies
and let's go and drink.
And as you drink, you start out OK, then you start going into it
because you can add on to that if you feel you have to.
No, I think I think what came to my mind was two things.
First of all, it's why I like I'm not saying
impartation in the sense, but it's why, for example,
when a guy wants to talk to a lady, it takes them out.
Yes, that's that's our secret.
That's not what we know.
No, no, no.
You understand that.
It creates a bond.
When I was in my second semester, I hated cooking.
And it was something that they told us.
They were like, if you love cooking, you ain't hated very soon.
And halfway, I hated it.
I couldn't stand being in the kitchen.
It was so much.
Why do you hate it?
Is because of the pressure?
It was the pressure.
It was the precision.
It's like it's about skill.
It's not it's no longer about fun.
It becomes an art.
Yeah, it becomes an art.
It's about being precise with my cuts, managing this.
I'm creating the recipe and being I'm
pushing things out the way they need to be portioned.
So it takes the love away from it.
It's now just feels exacting.
It feels like you're just mechanical to each mechanics.
So I hated it.
I hated that way of cooking.
And I remember going to God and saying, I'm going to quit.
I'm going to quit this course.
And God said, find another reason as to other than just cooking.
Find what does for people.
Come on.
And I remember thinking.
Food brings people together before I even went to culinary school.
Everyone used to like just gather to my house for some reason.
And they used to say, oh, Jojo likes to gather people.
And I realized that's what I was doing by cooking.
It's just something that brings people together.
Everyone comes for like a meal, like at a date, family functions.
Everyone's just like centered around like a meal that you just have with your loved one.
This creates intimacy, creates memories.
It's a bond that you have with someone when you share a meal with them.
And I was like, oh, that's not what I'm doing.
I'm no longer cooking.
I'm bringing people together.
And it brought me closer to God in understanding that that's how he is.
He wants to be in communion.
So I remember for like a couple of weeks, three weeks, God would sit.
I was alone in my apartment and he'd be like, have dinner with me.
Just have dinner with me.
That's why there's a last supper.
Come on.
Yes, yes, yes.
After the wrap.
Yes, yes.
That wedding supper of the lamb.
Yes.
It's God is about food, man.
Yeah, I understand that.
God is about food.
But let me ask you something.
Your profession is predominantly male.
And and it's interesting because women generally cook, you understand?
But your profession is predominantly male.
And we've had discussions on this and I'm curious, how have you handled
because being a chef is different from just being a cook.
OK, a lot of chefs, like you've told me in the past and you said earlier,
have given up their lives.
They don't have a social life.
They don't have, OK, how do women handle?
How have you handled?
Um, firstly, I don't think I would be in the industry if it wasn't for God.
That's number one for me.
It has been a way for me to communicate, get closer to God.
How other women handle is that you just have to be for lack of a hard line.
Like, you know, the kind of sacrifices that you're going to make when you're in there.
For men, it's easy.
And that's why it seems like they dominate it.
Someone said if women, if men find a way to make money from raising children,
women would be kicked out.
That's the thing about cooking.
Men have found a way to make money from the profession.
And they're just at a place where they can make more sacrifices than women.
It doesn't need to be walking six days a week, 18 hours a day.
Why? Where do you find time to see your kids?
A man doesn't have to be there during bedtime, bath time.
Yeah, he just has to provide financially so he can.
But a woman, we had a chef who had been like the Olympics come and talk to us.
And she said, I'm my officer on Monday.
And when my officer on Monday, I go, I pick up my child from school
and I just spend the day with them because that's the only time.
And it got to a point where she, she or her husband had to quit and her husband quit
because why should you go to the Olympics with that skill?
For him, he was just a chef.
So he said, you know what, between the both of us, you're the one.
So one person had to make the sacrifice of like when it comes to family,
I'll be the one that you do the crazy stuff that needs to be done.
But that is not the truth for a lot of women.
So even when you're in the industry and someone was trying to take you out
on a date, you'd be like, can you do Monday at 2 a.m.
I'm free for like two hours.
Otherwise, on Sunday, I'm working on Saturday, I'm working and I'm going to work until like 12.
And then I don't know.
There'll be an activation on Monday.
Then I don't know when I'm going to see.
How is the pay?
It's very poor.
Oh, it's very bad.
That's not a nice way to end such an interesting.
Kill you.
What?
My miss.
Oh, you.
What?
That's interesting.
I thought you guys were.
The fades away.
But what about you?
Because you see, I find it interesting when we're talking, you told me something.
No, actually, I don't remember who said what, but I think it was me.
I was saying that when you see a lady drinking a certain type of drink, you're OK with it.
But when you see them with particular types, you're like, it says some kind of
conclude that it says something about them.
It's like it's like seeing a woman smoking, especially in Uganda, with a cigarette.
And you're just thinking, you know, I don't do that.
They're presuppositions.
Yeah, I would say that it's like it's something that I'm back to actually
like the personalities, right?
There are certain drinks that I think in Uganda says something about a certain
type of person and that in itself is very problematic.
I'm sure you guys have anyway, I don't know, but you've had people who they say
that, man, that chick, she's a Nile special chick.
They are connotations you get.
And the implication is just that people have just lifted.
There's a blanket.
So what is a Nile special chick?
Like what that person, it's a chick with first of all high
tolerance, because that drink is not easy.
That's why it's mostly men who drink it.
It's something with Bell Lager, right?
But then when you see like a chick drinking Savannah, you're like a Bambi.
Like seven or six.
So she's not in doubt.
She's not in it.
Now, when you see people who tell you that these shots, people would drink
on you, you want to kill what?
This is a person who is out for a good time period.
There's a hot chick.
They are not what, but you see all these things, I think, at the end of the
day, come back to what someone is trying to do, because those energies
follow that thing.
There are women who there's this thing.
We're both said, oh, that chick, she hangs out with guys a lot.
Now, if you're looking for like a blanket description of a Nile special
chick, that's the energy.
But the thing is that that's not what it would be called in another setting,
in a separate setting outside of all the intoxication and whatnot.
So what I would say is a lot of us, you know, there are these types of drinks
that have certain implications or certain things they draw out.
But I think it all goes back to identity.
It all goes back to identity.
A lot of us really.
Now, you see just me, people saying, hey, that chick drinks Nile.
Yeah, a group of guys saying, hey, there is a young girl who's sitting there
thinking, I want to have guy friends, more guy friends.
Subconsciously, something is happening and they find themselves there.
So at the end of the day, when you know, and not just knowing who you are,
that's earthly and natural, but just knowing who you are that now is being
promoted of, ah, man, just know who you are, what kind of things do you like?
But there is that spiritual knowing who you are from the Bible and onwards to
like Jojo's conversations with God, things like that.
It solely defies you in a way that now there's no way you're going to be taken
up by the bracket of a Savannah chick or a Nile special chick or that chick like
short, there's no way those things can now start.
What is considered a classy drink?
How about the whiskey? Wine? Wine, wine, champagne, champagne, champagne, champagne.
It's going to be like a white wine.
I don't know.
Just a nice class.
And what drink is like Cayola, like foam?
Everyone.
Apart from water, like in alcohol?
Beer.
I wouldn't say beer.
I would say something like vodka.
Really?
No, no, no, no, tequila.
Maybe in Uganda.
Maybe.
I feel like a, like a tequila.
I feel like gin.
Gin, eh?
Because isn't waraji, gin.
Yeah, I think, because man, you guys, by the time you start drinking waraji,
if you don't drink.
I think, I think the process of making the drink helps to categorize it.
You understand?
So the less input, yeah, it's Cayola, the less input, the more art,
the more, you know, the more a lifestyle is built around it.
It's defined as classy.
That's the point.
I want to talk on the pay thing.
In our industry, the pay, the reason why I would say the pay is bad is because
of how many sacrifices you're making.
Yeah.
That is the reason why the pay is bad.
But also the reason why people are okay making those sacrifices is like I said
earlier on, they love what they do.
And when you're that in love with something, you can make as many sacrifices
growing in it.
There's a chef that I love who says that to walk with your hands, you are labor.
But then to walk with your hands and your mind, you're craftsman.
But to walk with your hands, your mind and your heart, you're an artist.
And when you get to that point of this is an art to you.
You don't need.
This is your drug.
This is your God.
This is, and most people when they're making those kinds of sacrifices,
that's the altar.
Like that is the altar at which everything is going to get burnt on.
There's so much.
We have to wind this up.
But I want I want to I want you to how did you because you are an alcoholic.
You're not an alcoholic anymore.
How did you get out of that?
I think if I was one, I'm going to speak to different versions of myself.
If I was younger, like 18, for sure.
First of all, I would tell them no, no, like, and it doesn't matter how many
people say that, oh, yeah, this person, they are the CEO of this and this.
But, you know, every so often they drink, it would just be a no for so many reasons.
My personality, the things that I like to do, being a creative, things like that.
But how I would say now, after getting out of it, I would say sitting under the word.
It is very difficult to fight a spiritual issue with natural methods.
I'll take us to people who go to rehab.
They never get well.
Yeah, they go, they get out, they come back.
They go, it's like it's it's a cycle.
People go for counseling.
I mean, and I'm not saying that these ways completely don't work.
But when the problem moves from the natural to the spiritual, they will not work.
They need spiritual solutions.
Spiritual solutions.
Now, for me, I think what happened was I came into a season where I was forced to
sit with the issue just to be there.
And in that time, one of my disciples was telling me, you know, this is your
make or break point, like after this could be the best season of your life.
Or you'll just come out of it and so I use that time to sit under the word.
I'm talking three to four hours in the word per day.
Someone's then after that reading, then after that prayer.
But this is something that was at the time.
I think God was setting a bedrock for it because by the time I had a
disciple man, I was still wilding, but I had like accountability partners, right?
My fiance had also overcome it, maybe one and a half, two years prior.
But when the thing happened, the disease, I sat there and I just sat under the word
and it was no pressure.
I wasn't telling myself, you know what, you're going to quit.
When you come out of this, you're never going to do it.
It's never going to come up again.
What it was like, that's not what we are here to do.
We are here to sit under the word and hear what we hear.
It just so happened that while I was in that process, I was being recovered.
And I couldn't see it like it is with the word.
You don't know how you don't know why, but it's done.
And that's really all I can tell someone, you know, it's it's amazing
because in all that I learned that, you know, God did it.
If you can't explain it and I can't, I can just say.
Sitting under the word helped me recover from something and then turn around.
And he, as it says in think romance, he works all things out
for the good of those who love them.
So he to love him and he he turned it around for me to understand life
much better, much faster and to understand what is currently happening
in the spirit when you intoxicate yourself.
And yeah, I would just tell anyone that the word, the word and the word.
And you feel like God, you feel like
you kind of found purpose and meaning through the experience that you went through.
Yeah, for sure.
Because at the end of the day, these experiences,
you know, ugly as they may seem when you're going through them.
They are in so many ways, they impact who you are as a person.
And the beauty is that if it's in God,
it impacts you for your own good and for the good of others.
Because right now we live in a generation where
anyone who ever tells anyone about how alcohol is and good is a buzzkill.
Like you're a buzzkill.
You're not like leave us as we are still young.
But here you recovered, which means you also enjoyed like so many
positions that come through.
But the most important thing is that
I think one thing we take for granted sometimes is that not everyone has
a bounce back story out of alcohol.
I can say there were so many nights where I drunk drove.
And I honestly, I have no idea.
Good protected how I was OK.
Because so many times, like at some point, it was even on a daily basis
in a certain season.
But the point is that there are people who die.
While still even in the natural with this thing.
That's true.
Before it even becomes spiritual.
There are accidents.
Somebody sees them living about looking high, kills them for what they are worried.
So at the end of the day, when I look about when I look at my journey
and how far I've come, I don't really see that.
Oh, it's such a horrible thing it is.
But I also see that, you know what?
You can actually get out of it
and have the life that you were supposed to have, not a half life.
Because I think that's the fear sometimes for people.
They're like, now me who has sunk 10 years of my life into this addiction
and things like that, how do I get out?
How do I become good?
Good can be dim time.
It gives beauty for us.
What about you?
With your final words, would you encourage anyone out there to become a chef?
I would definitely encourage a lot of people, especially in Uganda.
It is a space that still has a lot of room to grow,
even to the capacity of making money from it.
There are so many gaps, so many gaps in the culinary industry right now in Uganda.
And we have a lot of food, a lot of food and a lot of good food to work with.
Believe me, there's a lot of good food to work with.
And so I would encourage a lot of people to do it.
It's especially if you're creative, especially if you want a thrill.
If you want a thrill, and if you want to take ownership of yourself as well,
because you need a lot of discipline.
And is there anything else you would want to add concerning food before we close?
That we might have missed out from a spiritual or natural perspective.
What's your favorite dish?
I found out the other day that I'm very basic when it comes to my favorite.
My favorite dish is pizza.
I love pizza.
Wow.
So it's so basic.
It is an open face sandwich and you can't get very few people can get it wrong.
Maki.
Nice.
Been an awesome session, man.
Thank you, guys.
For me, I think just in closing, it would be food and drink are nice.
They're good.
They're amazing.
They were put here for a purpose and purposes like we've discussed.
But at the end of the day, one shall not live on bread alone.
So get to the word, soak yourself in the world, build your spirit mind so that your soul will flourish,
so that your body flourish.
You've stolen my scripture.
I wanted to end with that.
But let me say it.
So, Miriam Memo, thank you so much for coming.
Josephine Jojo, God bless you.
Maki, thank you so much.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Bible says taste and see.
The Lord is good.
See you next time.
Nice one.