Hello, everybody, and welcome to DRDM podcast. I'm yours truly Rabbi Daniel Malinga. In the studio
with me is Apostle Enok Makoko. Apostle, you're welcome. Thank you very much, Rabbi. I have next
to me Dr. George, you're welcome. Thank you, Rabbi. Today you've come in the capacity of an Apostle.
And then my co-host Afimani Manibags McLean, you're very welcome, sir. Thank you, man. We're
continuing from where we stopped the last time because this is part two, discussing. We touched
a number of things, ministry, callings, giftings. We talked about the books that we loved, the people
that inspired us. We touched about our sounds in the spirit and today we're just going to continue
from that. I want us to talk about purpose and see where the direction takes us. Gentlemen, when I was
younger and I just started a new church, I just got born again and I was very active in church. The
first thing, many people don't know this about me, the first thing I did was to start out as an actor.
So I used to act in skits. In fact, there are some skits where I actually acted as a woman
and I was very, very good. There are people who thought that Hollywood was my future. Then when
that lost its taste, I went on to rapping. So I was known as a rapper. We had a group called
Devil Haters who are very famous. There are some people who have nothing on us, who are as big as
Kulio and those guys and Tupac in Uganda. Anyway, after rapping, and I was pretty good at it,
so after rapping, I went into dancing and McLean was a witness here. We used to dance.
Then after dancing, I decided, okay, that finished its season. I decided to go into singing and some
people can't believe, but I used to sing tenor. And there was a particular point in time where
there were people who thought, this guy. The future of music.
That was the future of music. And what I say is that all these things played a stepping stone
to who I am as a minister now. So the question is, gentlemen, the question, and we were having
this discussion just before we went on air. How would a person know when their season for something
has come to an end and that they're supposed to move into something else? Well, maybe let me
just try to just talk about a little bit. From the discussion we had, I won't garnish more from
that or pick a little bit of that and also say what I have to say. One, let me first see. Let me
first throw it there. Someone's season can come to an end and it's possible for them not to know.
Yes. They were asking, how would a person know? I personally believe that seasons is one thing
that is very sensitive. I mean, the Bible says that the children of Isaka had understanding,
takes understanding for a man to know seasons and what they ought to do. Now, when a man is void
of understanding, it is sometimes very, very, very, very capable to know. But how would one know
personally? I think one of the ways the person, people would know is circumstances can tell.
So many things, for example, are used like Elijah. When the season at the brook came to one end,
it had to dry up. You understand? The funny thing is, I don't know why Elijah didn't hear from God
and he waited for the brook, but there are circumstances where things around you will
tell you because we are co-workers with creation. They wait for certain, when the Bible talks about
them waiting for certain manifestation for the suns, I think it's certain attributes.
And when they see certain things that are in line with the spirit, they sort of reflect a
certain thing to speak. I mean, even Jesus talks about a Pharisees not having capacity to read the
signs in the sky. So I believe me one way I can say, circumstances, circumstances can sometimes
tell you that peace has come to an end. Apostle? Yes. Actually, I can relate to
the phases of your life that I remember, the last time I acted, I was the best actor.
Really? Did you ever act as a woman? No, I acted as a dead man.
Wow, wow, some of them. I acted as a dead, as a guy who, you know, checked into a hospital somewhere
and died. And because, you know, misgovernment, management or something or whatever, I passed
away, but. Okay. And you were the best actor because of that? And I was the best actor. Okay.
All right. And now, I remembered that now that season ended, the moment I left that school.
And now when I transitioned into university, you remember, you know, we had, you know, a choir
called PWC, you know, praise and worships, you know, PWC. And then also that I could sense
that the time of it had come to an end. And I remembered certain burdens and fires that
started to consume deep within me. Especially I could move out of my university, you know,
I could move out of my hall of residence and look and the question would come to me.
If all these men went to hell, you would be to blame. So I remembered, I said, Lord, the first
thing I'm going to do, I used to fear my, you know, my costumers seeing me preach. So I had a big
cape, bigger than that, that could cover me. So I said, Lord, I think today I have to go with a cape.
So guess what? So when I stood on that street saying hallelujah, the first guy that came
was, you know, was the costumers. So the next time I didn't go back, but you see now, for you to know
the phases of your life, for example, you were in a workplace and you're supposed to transition out
of that workplace. There are certain things that would start to come. You never had a problem with
your boss. All of a sudden you reach earlier than anyone, you submit your reports, but for some reason
your boss is, you know, another time you've been let say staying in a place. I remember now a place
when I was literally staying physically in a place. One time I got to bed and I had just slept
like this and a certain, you know, a certain spirit came laughing and said, you think you're going to
take my territory? So I think I woke up. Anyway, I went back, I, you know, I fought with, you know,
with that being. Then guess what? When the time of that area had come to an end, I had a dream
and in the dream I had, um, I was hungry and I, you know, like, I like, you go to Seages to find a
meal and then guys serve you a human hand. What? In the name of Jesus. So guys like gathered thousands
upon thousands upon thousands, babies, young, old, whoever, and they told me get out of our, what?
Our region. So, um, so when the season has come for someone to move or to transition out into
something fresh, you'll always get promptings and signs. Okay. Maki? Yeah, that's interesting. I think
that's a good background because I was also going to use the example of, you know, where you stay or
the kind of car that you drive and stuff like that because there are certain things which
usually start to happen, which ordinarily wouldn't happen. They never happened before. For some reason
they just seems to be a problem constantly with the same thing. So that, that they've elaborated
very well. The one I wanted to bring out was the beat of the transitioning because the transitioning
can either be to step up or to move on to something else. And for me, that's the part where I would
want us to first touch on that. The understanding of when we say you're getting nudging, you know, to
move on from something, it's not necessarily that you should abandon this thing and move on to
something else. It can ideally mean you've been operating in level one or level two. Now it's
time for you to move to level three. You know, stop counting like the Bible says, you've come
here for too long, break camp and advance, you know, but it does not mean you're moving on to
something totally new. You're just literally stepping up. You know, so I think it's important to know
which nudging it is. Is it to step up or is it for you to move on to something totally different?
You know, you know, I always tell people, so I'm going to give an example. You, when you've just
moved into a house, just moved into a house, it's a perfect everything. It's your dream house. Stay
there long enough. At a certain point, you will notice the tap that used to work just fine.
Just doesn't seem to be working. Then the switch doesn't work. Then the same with a car.
You will know that if you're sensitive, you know, and that's how I pick up
certain seasons for certain things and places have come to an end. But the Bible says,
it says delight in the Lord and He'll give you that is as of your heart. And I've taught this
over when I'm teaching about seasons. It's very fundamental scripture because it implies that
most people interpret that scripture in a way that God is Santa Claus. If you delight in Him,
He'll give you whatever you desire. But that's not what scripture means. What it means is that
if you delight in the Lord, if you're in His presence, He implants into you, into your heart
His desires. So what you desire, you don't desire by accident. It is actually Him working through
you. Now, that brings us to the point of burdens where you will get certain burdens in your spirit
or certain things in certain seasons. And burdens and seasons go hand in hand. So there are burdens
that will come. And for some reason, like when I look at ladies, ladies have what I would call
cyclical burdens. And they're seasonal. I want to get married. Then it just fades a little.
I want to get married. And those things are not coincidental. You understand? Because when Adam
was sleeping, he didn't search for Eve. You woke up and found her there. And I believe
those burdens in a woman would often are a sign that the season has come. Adam is probably around.
The only problem is that he might be sleeping. So those burdens are very cruel. But you had a
perception on it. Okay, you know, I always like to look at something from above. Because one,
everyone knows that seasons are posting and stuff like that. I realize the biggest problem with
people is they don't even know. And I think when you look at the contrast across scriptures,
the issue was always they didn't know. They didn't know when Jesus came. They didn't know it had to
move on. I mean Moses and whatever. I mean, I've been trying to think of all. Because I feel that
look at Jesus, the things he suffered is because he suffered. I don't know, they get my point.
At the time, he didn't have to be killed. No one came to kill him. He used to say,
it's not my time. And he had a certain awareness. You get my point. But there's a place where God
uses the environment, like the way the donkey spoke. Because maybe, I love what Rabbi says,
you are not delighting. You are sleeping. You understand? The Bible says, when men slept,
you're sleeping. And for me, I think, because the Bible says, I will put men at a watch tower,
something like that, to see what I say. I feel for you to be very sensitive because it is one
wisdom and most of the successful people in life have known when to move toward. So if it was that
easy to pick seasons, then the entire earth would be successful. I don't know, they get my
point. But the key is that, like I said earlier, in my mindset, if you still love something,
if you have a, okay, if you're still good at something, but your passion for it has died,
then it's most likely it's season has come. Yes, I'll agree that's one of the ways. Yes, it's one,
yes. It's very possible. My point is, it's very possible for your passion to be there. For your
passion to be there, but because you're blinded, you understand. You don't even know, because the
scripture says, God causes us both to will and to do. He's a spirit. We've seen scenarios where
the devil moved David to count. So is it possible for your passion to be fueled by another spirit?
Other than God, yes. Other than God, you understand. Just to distract. Yes, just to distract,
you understand. And we see Israelites camping somewhere for, and God comes and says, you have
actually, it's, it's, there's a time, I wonder, that's when the other day, how God used to lead them
himself. The cloud moved, they moved, they didn't move, they didn't move. And then he comes and
tells them, you stayed here so long. I thought he was done leading them. That's not it. But the
point is, it's very possible. So for me, I feel like, I feel, and I love what one man of God said,
Apostle Joshua Selman, he says that one sign that your prayer closet is active is you never
miss seasons of your life. That is, that is a powerful statement. You understand. And, and,
and I can agree with you. I'm just giving a scenario rabbi. I mean, when you told me to,
I've become a part of something, a recenter, the ministry prayers and stuff like that.
Everything was working. Actually, there's a sign I saw and I knew.
Understanding. It was the season of God, because the devil was trying to make sure
it does not happen. I mean, and even almost happened, that if it happened, I wouldn't be,
I can't explain it. So maybe as Christians, what happens is, when you are prayerfully,
because the Bible says, pray and watch. Now, in, in the praying, you'll be told what to watch.
Or you'll have the wisdom to know what to watch. You understand? Because there are many things
that the Lord can use. I love to pick from Elijah. The Bible says that he came and checked. Okay,
let me just use that scenario. You understand? He was in the presence. I mean, it could show us
how someone can know seasons. He comes before God, because God comes and asks him, what are you doing
here? Then he gets his mantle and comes and presents himself before God at the entrance
of the cave. And the Bible says, and a cloud, I mean, thunders came and he came and checked in
that to see if the voice of God was there. You understand? But if he had not presented himself,
there is a place he had to be, to even be able to see. Even dreams are seasonal. Yes. Yes. There
are certain dreams that acyclic or they happen during particular times. Yes. Yes. I like, I like,
I like what a prophet, George, has elaborated there. But now, actually, thinking about Abraham,
the scripture says, and the Lord had said unto Abraham, get out of, can you imagine?
So the Lord actually had prepared him for a, for actually a transition. So there could be
someone out there who is watching us and saying, I think for me, I'm completely out of, of touch.
You see? But the moment actually Abraham responded, that's what made a world of a difference.
Yes. It's, it's important that we have the understanding of the times. It's, it's important
for us to capture the seasons. Like for example, our farmer knows that now I'm supposed to do planting.
Sometimes you could have, you know, a rainy season come much more earlier than you,
you've been expecting it. Or sometimes you'll even see one delaying longer than you, you get.
But now, actually, I like, I like actually what the previous minister said. He said that
all unto you Pharisees, you can tell the, you know, you can, you know, you can look into the sky
and you can say, today the way it is looking like the cloud is, you know, the sky is red. And
I think in the morning at around five a.m. it's going to, to pour down. But he said, but, but how
be that you cannot tell the signs of the times. So the Lord expects us that now what a place of prayer
takes us to, it draws you where you can easily interpret the signs of the times. I was interacting
with one mogul, you know, in the city here and I told him now, when did you know that you're supposed
to stop, you know, dealing in coffee? Now, that's when I discovered that actually wealth is spiritual.
And when the Lord is taking, you know, us from one level of wealth to another,
he will like, like he told me, I just knew I couldn't explain how, but I knew that the season
of coffee had come to an end. And I needed to, you know, to start getting properties within the,
you know, the city center. Say, hey, then, huh? So how did you know that you're supposed to buy
this building? So I am inquiring like that because I want to know where is this man getting these
things. So the Lord expects us to know the seasons of the times. Okay. So we have, we have
personal seasons. They are corporate seasons, church seasons. If you look back and follow the
transitions of the church, the church has gone through various, what would I call them, dispensation.
Dispensation has gone through dispensation. There was a period, there was a certain period
of dispensation where there was the evangelistic grace that was flowing through the legs of
the TLS, the TLS called Billy Graham. Billy Graham. Then there was a pastoral dispensation.
Now, Rabbi, hold on a moment. The healing revival that we talk about in the, you know,
in the history of the transitioning of the church, they are actually people that fail to transition.
In that dispensation, even here in our country like Uganda, there was a time when we had, you
know, when people could go in like, like in a city square and they could hold and they could camp
there, born again believers and amazing things were happening. Talk about the healing of HIV.
And that is the time when someone contracted HIV. It was still in its raw form.
People got healed. But then believers failed to understand that now it was actually time to
transition. There was a prophet who was in that move in the American, a very mighty prophet,
very, very mighty prophet. Is that Bob Jones? No, no, no, no, no. Cain, Paul Cain.
Oh, okay. Paul Cain. Paul Cain. Guess what? Now, that's why actually someone who has the
foundation of God's Word will always even last through, you know, even when transitions come
and go. Somehow a person who, you know, who flows, you know, in an anointing where there are revelations,
especially with God's Word will always last. Now, Paul Cain, I think, failed to transition.
Okay. You get it. So some people fail to transition from that place to another. But then
you come and you see the likes of a grand park in Ethiopia again.
That the Lord came and told him, actually, that thing is going to come to an end. And this will
be the sign that that thing is coming towards to an end. Now, you see him having now a much
more greater impact. Yet he was even a part of, you know, the previous dispensation. That is so
powerful. That is so powerful. Because the next question I'll ask, because what we're talking
about here is that there are corporate seasons for the church and the church will move through
dispensations and the potency of God and the grace of every dispensation is different.
Okay. So what the emphasis is different. And some people fail to understand that.
They just fail to understand that. What dispensation are we in now?
Yes. I believe this is the, this is a prophetic, you know, a prophetic season. It's a prophetic
dispensation. And so it's time for the prophets. And the reason is because there's a new move. There's
something new that needs to happen. Everybody knows we're living in the end times, you know.
But if I could just pick from that and make it relevant to someone out there, you have your
anointing, you have your call, and you're asking, okay, this question of transitioning from one
place to another. Okay. And this is also a question for us to, to, to roll with.
When we are talking about transition from one season to another season,
I believe it's not necessarily true that the transition will be, okay, let's say you got
nudges to move from this season. Let's say things started to fall apart and things are not moving.
Then you get the nudge that I think it's time to move forward. I don't believe
that it is necessarily true that when you move from here to the new season, that it's going to
start with a bang. You get what I'm saying? That it's going to start with, oh, you know,
everything just success. You get what I'm saying? Not every season announces itself.
Not everything. But, but then the thing that, that actually he talked about was
the peace that comes with, you know, the stillness now, the stillness that comes.
Yes. So the reason I'm saying that is because the challenge that what you just explained is
literally where the believers where there is a new season. But let's say believer will try and step
into the new season and you realize this is unfamiliar territory, or you're not comfortable
with it. And you find yourself being drawn back to the old one, because that's where you found
your comfort zone. That's where things seem to be moving for you or what you thought should be
moving. That you didn't spend enough time here to let this mature into the glorious thing that it
could be. You know, that's, that's the point that I wanted to bring forward. I am thinking about
so many things. Rabbi is looking at me and saying, okay, okay, one, let me just say this. Just to
help someone there way to be practical. One, I believe when it comes to good communicating,
because when you understand seasons, you must understand how God communicates to you. I believe
the way lions change seasons and interpret when a season is changed is not the way birds change
seasons and interpret when a season is changed. So one, one big marker is each one should know
how God communicates to them when their seasons are changing. Some people, it's dreams, some people,
it's circumstances, some people, it's people, people, people, I mean, even people God brings
around you, some points go changing their location and stuff like that. That's very important. Now
going back to the corporate thing about the church changing seasons, I believe we are in
yes, the executions is the prophetic whatever, and I believe the emphasis of God is nations,
you understand? And the operation is extremely spiritual, spirituality.
Understanding the spiritual. Yes, I believe that's the move. That's the move the church is going to
or what some people like calling them is the mistake movement. Some may not agree, but well,
let's go to whatever. And then what I can also say when it comes to seasons in churches, one,
I also believe there are people who are not supposed to move
when the seasons come. They are alive enough, they know the seasons have changed,
but they are to stay as pillars to show that, for example, somewhere, you understand?
Those are people who are preservers of the previous whatever. So they stay as testimonies,
as witnesses to see that, and for this young generation to look back. And then when it also
comes to the church also transitioning seasons, the Lord will begin by spearheading, you understand?
It's usually not so common for him to use old wineskins.
Yeah, like people, whenever there's a new move, remember last, the last time we were the podcast,
I said there are three ways God raises men. And I said there's a category of people that are raised
from the wilderness. And usually when someone comes from the wilderness, they're separate from the
existence system. And that happens when God is starting something fresh and something new.
And you will always know, because of course, some fake guys can always rise up as well.
Do you know that historically, they said there were about 15 people that claimed to be Jesus
before Jesus actually showed up? So the enemy will know when a season is coming and send foreign
The question is, when does the enemy?
Now the enemy will know because of, you know, the enemy's spiritual being. And there are spiritual
signs that any being in the realm of the spirit can tell. But they will not be specific to know
what is going to happen. But they will know something is happening. So they will bring forth
replicas. For example, you actually, the last time we were here, we talked about something,
about replication of something that you that the reason why you don't have a 3000 shillings note
replicated in Uganda, because you don't have that, that note, particularly. So the reason you have
2000 replicas, because there is there is a rigged one there. So the enemy being a spirit being,
he can tell how certain things change in the spirit, and then he can position his cohorts to
go on. And why did you say something? Yes. Why ask that is because I believe when when things are
transitioning and I love to use how the Bible uses the the the the lights in the heaven to be
for signs. And if you take it, there are also lights in the realm of the spirit. You understand,
it could be people, it could be a revelation, it could be an understanding. And I believe
what happens is, there is information in the realm of the spirit that is available
for everyone. For every spirit being. For example, it was known when a star came out that Jesus was
born. We all agree the Magi were spiritual, but when we saw people or something, they were
the readers of stars and stuff like that. So there is what is available that the enemy can know.
And I believe that is when it gets to know because he would have brought Jesus way back,
you understand. So there is when like the signs change, you understand, and anyone who has eyes
and spiritual can see. But then again, there are things that God conceals to himself,
like the way as the words, because the scripture says, had he known, he would not have crucified.
So I believe there are things also God leaves, you understand. Oh, if it's to reveal,
he reveals them as sealed. You know, you know, we live in a dispensation of prophets.
And there are many people who can prophesy. Many who can see in the spirit, some are chaotic,
some genuine. Let's be clear.
People used by God need to be discerned. And in the same way, seasons of God need to be
discerned in the same way. You see, I've seen clearly, I've seen people who my spirit tells me,
this is not God's spirit operating in this person, accurately pick out
when something in the future is going to happen and it happened exactly at the time it did.
And you would say it in the same season where someone I consider to be genuine,
as also said, the same thing. But if you pay close attention to unknown things and we're going to get
you will notice that there are things that avail to people who do not have the spirit of God
in their prophesy. People think prophesy is the same. Yes, it is not.
There when a person is a vessel of God, they not only see the thing, they see the mind of God.
On sounding the thing. On sounding the thing. So for example, let me give a quick example. Someone can say
this particular person wants to stand for president. And from a moral perspective,
okay, they're doing everything right. Even an unbeliever would say that's the person I would pick.
A person who does not have the spirit of God sees it in the spirit and says this person's going to be
president. The one with the spirit of God will not just say this person is the one who's going to be
president. But often, especially if they're a prophet, will add the reason as to why God wants
that person. What is the mind of God? The mind of God. So even the seasons of life, our seasons,
it's not just enough to know, now I need to get this job. Why? The mind of God towards,
you guys can add on to that if you feel it. So you're saying, which I love,
information comes out in the spirit. But even what comes out is sealed. Yes, God's mind towards,
I think. So the devil can only pick bits of it and try to replicate with his craftiness.
You see, he knew Amesiah was coming. Yes, that's what I'm saying. But he didn't know the mind of
God towards Amesiah because he didn't know that he was supposed to die. Are you getting me? I'm
getting you. Okay, so even your purpose, do you know that there are things...
The Bible says that when Jesus appeared, when Jesus was transformed, transfigured, a cloud
surrounded him. Okay, then the Bible says, and he talked with Elijah and Moses about his death.
Now, if Satan is a spirit, how could he not have had that particular conversation?
I've always had a theory because I remember one time you mentioned the same thing,
and I think I went back and I was like, I feel, because things are mentioned, but how comes
the devil will hear, and I will say, yet not possible. Like the Bible says, you have ears,
but you don't perceive well, understand a certain way. Okay, personal, I feel one of the sales could
be the frequency at which all these people operate from. For example, I'm just going to give a simple
example. If someone is perceiving something from a frequency of love, another from a frequency of
bitterness. The two things, one is light, one is not. The other is darkness. The Bible says the
spirit of God had shed abroad the love of God, not revealed, shed. So love is like light, you
understand. So I believe one of the seals is, for example, love. One of the things that God uses
to seal things, you understand, and it's a frequency not devil can operate from in the realm of the
spirit. If love is genuine, or if the message that has come has come from God is genuine.
It also tells us that there are things that God reveals to us as individuals that we should
learn to keep quiet. That's the point that I want to give you. Because even when you're saying the
one of Jesus, when he was transfigured and there's a cloud that came around him, and then he spoke
with Moses and Elijah, maybe the cloud was the hedge, because I picked that from the story of
Job in the Bible. As long as there was a hedge around Job, the devil could not get him. Even when
he tried, that was his only complaint when he went to God, he said, but you have a hedge around him.
So remove the hedge so I can attack the man. And so it's like the same thing you're saying,
when, and it asks us the question of how does the devil know. My firm belief is it's because
sometimes we are just talking anyhow to whoever, you understand? And the person you're talking to,
even what you're sharing, you've not even covered it. You're not even sure if it's covered or not.
You understand? And you're just talking anyhow. There's no protection around it. There's nothing.
And most times the devil will actually pick up on it when you say it yourself.
So is it the reason Jesus communicated in parables?
No, actually, actually, I've been talking about that, you know, that particular experience.
He chooses three guys and then he's transfigured before them. And those guys actually saw the
Elijah. And for some reason, they knew that this is Elijah, whom they had never seen.
And they knew this was Moses, who Moses had lived thousands and thousands of years before them.
So anyway, so he tells them that say to it that you tell no one of it.
So the only way demons could have known
is when those guys were there had actually talked about it.
So if they had, maybe at that place, because maybe then at that level,
it was not communicated, it was written at the tablets of their hearts.
There are also things that communicated to them and sealed them in them and they understood
after left. Those guys were too excited to keep quiet.
But more importantly, I want you to understand how
that's a change of season of rabbi. Like, for example,
like the church here, especially in the city, the Lord was raising up an anointing of a teacher.
And when you when you look around, there is no one who flows the way, you know,
rabbi flows glory to God. Now, there is a way God brought that message
encrypted end to end and rabbi got it. And then, but then God would speak
audibly here and rabbi would perceive differently and and and and George would perceive differently.
And you know the interesting thing about God, yes, it's the the differentiation in
perception has layers. First, myself as an individual, because we're different.
Secondly, our callings differentiate how we hear.
Thirdly, the anointing and the intimacy we have with God also would differentiate,
because, you know, the lowest level of communication is through dreams.
It's the lowest level. That's the lowest. Then you go on to other levels. Now,
as much as you have said that God will put a signature in me concerning a particular message,
he will also give particular people a desire for that particular signature. I don't know if
correct, correct. The people who will work with you to push that to push that which is because
no man, God does not send any man to be alone. You will create a fire, like for example,
talking about Elijah and Elijah, the anointing upon Elijah was supposed to sustain, you know,
that widow, you know, at at Zerapheth. But for some reason, she was, she said, man of God.
But guess what? When Elijah communicated the revelation of God and the mind of God behind
what he was doing, why he was doing, the woman completely connected to it. So there's a way,
actually, when the Lord shines a light, like he will go and make signatures of, you know,
of spirits that are supposed to respond to that particular light.
Actually, the idea I'm going to bring even, the idea is that every individual in the Bible
that work with God is a dimension of God. Okay. And there are people, we call them spiritual lineages,
who are supposed to walk in that dimension. Now, there are dispensations when particular mantles
are supposed to operate or be prominent. But there are generations that can miss
particular mantles because either they did not receive them or no one was available to take it
Yes, yes, yes. I agree. The scripture says he came unto his own and his own did not receive him.
So it's very possible for the Lord to present something and then it's not received. And I
believe also when you read about church history and stuff like that and dig deeper, you realize
that there are moves we know that move the church based on the speed of the church. You understand?
However, there are also people you read about and realize they were too far ahead of their generation.
Like who? Like David. Like David, yes. From a biblical perspective, David. Why David?
Interesting. Someone might want to know why David. I will I say the level of intimacy he had.
Leave alone just intimacy. David tapped into grace before before before even it could even be here.
Could it also be Moses? The Bible says he found grace. He found grace. We'll talk about it last
time. So most of them and and it's interesting. Sometimes I believe that there is what is for
the dispensation. You understand? And it also brings us to the place of as we grow in good,
you realize that you can live in a dispensation and be limited to just give that. I mean Paul says
would have moved on to melt you the deck, but you're not able to handle something like that.
So you realize it's very possible for you to just receive just what you need. Oh, the best
example is the Bible says that God did not take the Israelites by the way of the Philistines,
but was revealed to Moses. You understand? And that way would have taken like what 11 days or
something. Yeah, very short additions. And we even see Moses goes on to marry
a whatever, a Soutian woman, an Ethiopian woman. You understand? Which would not have been a problem
later. I mean when the Bible would not have been a problem later when Christ came and stuff like
that, but was a problem then. I believe in his encounters with God, there is something encounter
that for him as in was operating. And you see that the deep thing is that his brother and sister
were living in the dispensation of law. Yes, yes, yes. And in the law, it says you can't marry.
Yes, yes, yes. A gentile. Yes, yes, yes, yes. All right. Moses goes outside the law.
And God, who is the same yesterday today and forever, sees that Moses is living in a dispensation
before this one. Yes, yes. And punishes the ones. So that makes me understand that
they are men whose operations who may never understand. That means it's also possible
for us to be in this dispensation and tap into the dispensation. The powers of the
age. The powers of the spiritual. Those who have tested the powers of ages to come and stuff like
that. So which also makes me understand that as a believer, as we mature, if you find a man
operating in a way you don't perceive, there could be two things. Your spirit may not be comfortable
with it because it's false. But also the other concept, Rabbi, which talked of maturity, our
interpretation could also be at the level of our maturity. The same later, John writes, he says,
right to your fathers, right to your sons, right to your children. Same later, that means the same
someone that received different messages. But received on different levels. Even the message
was different. Even if the later was the same. So it also makes me understand that. I mean it
just puts me in a place whereby if I am young in the spirit, it's difficult for me to judge someone
above because I may not know where they're operating from. There's a discrepancy where they
just talk about being all over. A man of God who said that is more gifted than God. You understand.
And you realize the issue was those who are coming against him, not because I'm for the man
or whatever, is they need to understand what he was trying to say. Because God is not gifted.
Yes, you understand. It's the gift of gifts. You understand. So you realize that sometimes
the misconception is because of what plane, what people are operating on, where you're operating
from. This thing, man, this thing, you see, and it's actually, I have found that your man of
God, or the person that you listen to, can be, if you make him, he can be your ceiling. True.
To the extent that there are people who have sat under, this is why the Bible says study to
show yourself approved. There's a certain part that has to do with you. Not just drinking from
the anointing alone. Where that person stops, if he's all you're focusing on, that person will be
your ceiling. So there are people who are still stuck in a dispensation of what we used to do
it back those days. When we're going for evangelism, you put together, what do they call those?
I don't remember what they call them. And you stand on top and you begin to,
you begin to preach and you begin to preach. I don't want to read it.
And I agree. You know, at one time I was asking God that, what cause? Think of this. Let me just
throw this out. Scripture says, go and teach nations, baptizing them. And these ones thought
it's about individuals, but it's possible to get an entire nation and baptize it. The spirit of an
entire nation or the soul of an entire nation and baptize it into a certain pattern. You understand?
So one of the reasons personally, I believe, and I will say it, there's a dimension of evangelism. I
have felt is no longer as effective. You understand? As it used to be, because even the evangelism we
have today started with D.L. Mudi. The one of God the street. And then you realize that the church,
some things were at add on us, but we've not moved out from them. I was shocked to actually realize that
the way we do much of the operations in the nominal churches that have not yielded to the way the
spirit of God moves is something that Calvin came up with during the times of the Reformers.
When Calvin was very administrative and anointing, John Knox was very fiery and stuff like that.
Most of the believers had not yet studied and things like that. So he came up with things like
Bible school that taught them different nominos about life. Because most of this came from a
pagan sort of culture and what I'm thinking, okay, the way praise and worship are structured from
Calvin is in turn how it's where some churches stopped. And you see the thing is everything has
its place. It's all about seasons. Knowing when God is now on something and also how each plays
a role in the body. Because the churches have been to where there's no praise and worship.
All you sing is the hymn. You sing the hymn and you sit down.
Okay? I'm like, how would these guys be in heaven? They would be bored.
I know somewhere where I don't know if that's genuine or not, but they don't even say hallelujah,
but it's called the church. So I just had to add that to what you're saying in terms of the things
that can be interesting. But touching on this subject, in a dispensation, there can be so many
dimensions within that dispensation that if individuals do not understand their call and
their anointing, they might just think because, oh, Apostle is there. Maybe he's the one. So if
Apostle does not wake up to his and doesn't realize it's time for a new season and it doesn't spark
the fire, chances are that everyone else under the Apostle is not going to do anything. But
there could also be the possibility that if someone sitting under Apostle picks up on that
and sparks a fire, Apostle could also pick up on that. Maybe that's the trigger I need. Maybe
that's the trigger someone else needs. And I'm saying that because of the example that you've
used like for evangelism, of the one of going to the streets, because now if you ask someone what
evangelism is, that would basically be their definition. You understand? But that's not the
only form. And I love the way I wanted to correct myself. I didn't mean it's bad. I also preach
on the streets. But I believe that we all preach on the streets. That's how I went and the Spirit
of the Lord came upon me and I spoke Logan. You know, but that's what I'm trying to do. Go ahead.
Yes. You know now, I think now that's when we need to define places of spirituality from places
of religion and dogmas and all those. And when God is going to move in our dispensation today,
and actually he's already moving, things that actually tie us behind are traditions.
Traditions. Yes. I love. Yes. Go on. Like there is a man yesterday I met around this very same time.
And he was telling me he was praying for my particular church. I will not mention.
And he came and visited a ministry of a particular mighty prophet.
But now that prophet only has one what, one serve, you know, one, you know, one, you know,
one ministration a week. And for him, he was coming from a place of, but man, I've been a church
goer. I'm not saying going to church on Sundays is actually what is actually wrong.
But now you imagine men that begin to judge you because your ministrations are not on Sunday,
not on Sunday. Sunday morning. You know, Paul talks about that stuff in Colossians.
People who have won at days and what. Okay, go on. Anyway, so he told me, but man, we,
because I was so engraved into the sandy thing, I moved on from place to place finding out. Okay,
but then when you could go to different places, he could not feel the same way he would feel
when he's under this mighty prophet. Now he told me now, we just knew that we were supposed to
transition. So now many times because of how people have picked out certain traditions,
actually there are men that missed dispensations and moves of God because of the traditions of men.
Yes. You see the Pharisees. Yes. Now when the Lord now shows up and the way he does things is not,
you imagine a guy shows up, his guys are not washing their hands and they are eating
and on top of that is eating with sinners. Now there's actually one woman that the Lord
you know, commended. The Lord comes and, you know, like a lady desires her daughter to be healed
and goes to the Lord and say, Lord, I want you to heal my daughter. You know what the Lord
told the lady? He said, actually, you know, I'm not going to cast, you know, a children's bread
and to the dogs. Now imagine the Lord who came to heal, telling a lady, but then I understood
that that lady was not in the in the perceived bounds in which the Lord was called because she
was actually what? A Samaritan. Anyway, so he goes and he tells her, you know what? But the lady
answers and says, you know what, Lord, actually the dogs cannot eat of themselves. So she comes
into a dispensation. She comes into a dispensation and the Lord got so surprised. He said, what?
I have not had so great faith, not in Israel. And he said, now go and be healed. And you see,
he's telling also the disciples who have been with him that he has never seen such faith.
And the disciples are with him 24-7. That's why I was saying. Now, also, now there is another guy
that actually is, it's actually, it's going to play out according to the conversation and flow.
There's a guy who comes and is a Centurion.
Now guess what? Now that guy, he was giving and what? And then he had also a servant who was sick.
And I said, but so the Lord now, Papa says to say, okay, I'm coming to heal. And the guy says, but
wait, I'm not worthy for you should that you should come. But he says, but I am a man under
authority. I say one, you know, you know, I have servants, I tell them, come, come, they go, go.
And now just send a word and it will be enough. Hey, but you know why you were shocked by that?
Why do you think you were shocked by that? Because it looks like a simple statement.
It looks like a simple statement, but that is very, very profound. I feel like he had
a clear revelation of rank in the spirit. He had a clear revelation of
authority. And then he had even places of submission that I am under authority. So
meaning a man who is under authority is a guy who has been. He understands how authority works.
He understands how authority works and operates. But guys, we're certain then that when dispensations
are happening on the earth, God will release certain people to spearhead those dispensations.
Okay. And those dispensations, those people, individuals, they could be handful.
They have upon them what we call mantles. Okay. I give you an example of what exactly?
I believe Kenneth Hegan. Kenneth Hegan was a perfect example of someone who started something.
In fact, he was a teacher for 17 years, then was actually a prophet. But I believe what he did
was apostolic. He founded something that was very powerful, especially towards faith. And
there are mantles that will fall upon specific people. Now, I believe you guys would,
I mean, there are mantles that are drawn from scripture in the sense that
there is no new mantle. You don't start a lineage that has not existed. They're drawn from the
lineages we find within the confines of scripture. Now, their operations might be different,
but mantles come from the spirit realm and men capture them. I also believe,
well, I can capture an anointing, an anointing from someone. I can get an anointing from someone,
and we're going to define this. I don't believe everyone can get one person's mantle.
Because mantles, we don't see many people having.
It is true that you have now the sons of the prophets who were prophets. And
for some reason they knew that Elijah was going to be taken. And for some reason they were,
when they looked at themselves, they were not worthy for the mantle, but they told Elijah,
do you know that your master will be taken away from you? So that what you talk about is very,
very true. Yeah, but, but still, I don't think all the sons of the prophet could have got one mantle.
It's always that one particular.
So are we saying, because you know, mantles have looked at scripture, different people define
mantles differently. I won't mention one man. He said a mantle comes on you at a certain specific
timing, maybe because scriptures is when the hand of God used to come upon men doing operations and
stuff like that. And that aside, so let me first ask a question. You guys answer me, then I say
something. Who took Moses's mantle? Well, the idea is that Joshua. Joshua, yes. So okay, if we say
that, then it's true, because Antiochus, as an example, that means there is where we see the spirit
of Moses taken off and put another man as the anointing. Yes. But then we see the mantle
through the laying on of hands was transferred to Joshua, particularly. Yes. So these are the elders
and actually they were anointed because the Bible says that Israel served God all the days
of Joshua and the elders that lived in Israel and stuff like that. So we see they had anointing
and capacity that did different things. You get the picture or even really good people who work
with God. But the mantle was upon one person. This is what I believe, that one person pursues. And
you see there are mantles in the spirit. There's a scripture in Psalms that talks about
shields that are laid up in the spirit and those shields are for warriors, past warriors,
which I believe imply mantles in the spirit realm. And so a person can pursue something in the spirit
and a mantle that is vacant, you see, can fall upon the person. But I haven't seen in scripture
where two people with the same mantle, got the same mantle, are existent at the same time.
Like now probably you can talk about like Benin, Benin and Katharine Coleman.
How Benin goes and receives the mantle upon Katharine Coleman. Katharine Coleman was a woman,
not a man because you hear Katharine Coleman say it's a man. It was actually she was a woman.
And you see how Benin expresses himself, how he ministers is exactly the same way.
But can we say something? Because you can't talk about mantles without talking about anointing
and without talking about spiritual lineages. Because when you talk about Katharine Coleman's
mantle, that mantle is coming from somewhere that we can link in scripture. You see it has
its lineage. So in essence, it's not really hers. It's something that has been passed on.
It's something that was like, for example, you know, when the Lord is going to do something,
the Lord will release mantles in the realm of the spirit and men for men to capture them.
And those that capture the mantles are men upon whom dispensations are actually
accorded. Yes, yes, yes, that's it. Like, for example,
Peter, if Peter had captured the vision, the Lord had given him concerning the,
you know, the Gentiles, and he would have received it the way he was supposed to receive it.
There was no reason why the Lord was going to raise up Paul.
We deal with God, you know, who operates out of space and time.
And when God wants to do something, you release certain, you release things in the realm of the
Peter. Now, Peter, the Lord tells him because he's seeing, you know, pigs, what, what, and then
because of his traditions as well. The Lord now tells him,
rise and eat. And guess what Peter said? He said, but I will not eat that which is what.
Don't call that unclean. From that time, lines were drawn. And yet he was the one. And from that
time, I'm telling you, if he had actually risen up, he would have received all the revelations
that Paul received. It's true because the Bible says on this rock, yes, I was just waiting,
slotting that like, yes, on this, on this rock, I'll build my church and stuff like that. Yes,
it means that a man took and come and you whatever is a very amazing prophet. I was reading about
Bob Jones, who says his mantle came from an African prophet. Yes. Who, who, the son, because
it looks like God wanted, first of all, to give that mantle to the biological, I don't know whether
it was the biological son, according to him. So he rejected it. And then he gave it to Bob Jones.
So you know, mantas are not natural family heritage. They are spiritual family. Yes, I agree.
I agree. They're not natural family heritage. But let me ask a question. Rabbi.
Oh, a question out there. This, this guy here is told to God, I know it's Elisha.
Oh, Elijah. Elijah. To be the next prophet. Well, I'm of the view, like I said, one day,
but Elisha was among me. I believe what people say was a farmer was among the seven thousand,
I believe, because after the conversation of the seven thousand, that he can grasp the revelation
of even seeing substance in Elijah, like God tells him about the seven thousand. And then
it is telling him that you gotta know it. Elisha. So was it that Elisha was chosen?
Okay. So the question he's asking is, he believes that are there people chosen for mantas?
Oh, are we going to say, are we going to say it was to anoint Elisha as a prophet in his stead,
you understand? They are anointing. But then again, it is Elisha who pursued the mantu because he
asks Elijah and Elijah tells him, it's a difficult thing you've asked. You know in the spirit, the
spirit is a call. Who shall I send? And as long as that call is there, it implies that
there are things available to all men to position themselves to receive. That's what I get. Because
you see, if you look at Billy Graham, you can trace Billy Graham to Jonah. Jonah, yes, as I
was about to say, Jonah. Okay. You can trace Catherine Cuman, you go backwards, maybe you go to
Philip the Evangelist or whoever. But you can trace them. John the Baptist to Elijah. Yes. You
can't, now I can't just say, cutting is an enough mantu. And a mantu is a whole different level
over. I think, I think now what? We have about 20 minutes to go. So I think, I think the thing
that disturbs men, now people can get rubble, you know, like for example, I can tap into your spirit
and I can teach and, you know, and people may, and yeah, you get what I mean. Now just like
Saul, the king tapped into, when he joined the camp of the prophets, something came upon him that
was operating upon the what? The prophets. Or even the warriors of David. The warriors of David.
Who were men that were outcast and whatever. Yeah. And then, and then you see now, they became
warriors and guess what? They also started slaying giants. Yes. You see, now
someone can get an operation of, of an anointing upon someone, but not specifically the mantu.
Let me ask. Let me ask you, actually. The people that have the mantles,
are they the ones we call fathers?
Yes, I want to believe so. I want to believe so because actually you're picking, you're
literally, I think it's just float because the next thing I was going to ask and first I've
answered, for me, I believe yes. Those are the ones we call fathers because what I was going to
ask was, let's first clear this misconception about any man of God who has a ministry
and has some sort of following or has a congregation, no matter the number, whether five people, three
people, a hundred people, thousands of people, is automatically a spiritual father. I understand
because it's the same misconception with mantles and anointing. You can have an anointing. It does
not necessarily mean that you have the mantu. You understand? So, I just wanted us to discuss
that particular one. This was last time I said something that I didn't have time to go into,
but I said it's my belief that you can, there are people who God, like you did for Elisha,
God will direct a father to, a father to, and say this, this, this one has been made
divinely, the relationship is so divine that God is in it. Then there are people who they're seeking
for something, their hearts are drawn and that person becomes their father in that sense. It
becomes a source for them to grow from, to drink from. But not everyone, dependent on their choice,
it's my belief that not everyone is supposed, or not everyone can have a father. They can choose
to have one, but you can choose not to. The repercussions are different. The journey that you
go through might be different from someone who has a father, but you can, and we're not talking about
mantas here. You're touching, I'm going to throw this out there, just within these 20 minutes.
I want you to just, because I shared this with someone sometime, the, not the problem, but
what is at stake when you consider someone as your spiritual father? You understand? And you
are connected to them like that. How does that affect you, your spiritual life and your outcomes
and stuff like that? Especially like for someone who doesn't understand fully what spiritual fatherhood
is all about. You understand? You're just going around, you found a man of God, a woman of God,
and you said, oh, this is my spiritual father, or this is something,
meanwhile, there's no spiritual mother. It's just father, because of sauce.
I'll just hit something, but I, for example, I'll use an example of Abraham, the inheritance
went to Isaac, but he had other sons. They were given gifts. You understand? There are things
that will come to you because you are serving, even if you're under an anointing. There's a
scripture, I think, that talks about grace according to the measure of grace that is coming down to
you. You understand? There is that place. You understand? But then, being a son, there is
an inheritance that comes to sons, because even when God is, because every time God makes
convenience with people that you call fathers or convenience that move with different mantras
and stuff like that, the promise of the inheritance, certain things are always to the sons. But I
did also just read a certain scripture. Forgive me. Please, the next few minutes. Very, very quickly.
We talked about mantras. This scripture and job I like, which says this,
because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless,
and him that had not helped, the blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me,
and I caused the joy. And you go down and realize there is a blessing, someone who was ready to
perish, like a mantra, that came upon him. And when you go down, he says, and I put on righteousness
and close myself and my judgment. So it's like he took a seat and a position, because there was
certain specific blessing that came upon him, and then down, it talks of him being a father,
let me ask you a complete recitation. The person that has the mantras, are they the one who
decide who to give it to? No, I also don't believe. It's not in the hands of the person who has it.
It's not in the hands of the person who has the anointing that actually decides
who the anointing goes to. And I've seen this with actually like two examples,
more than actually two examples in the Bible. Guess what? The anointing that was upon Eli, the
prophet, was transferred to somewhere. Not his sons. Not his sons, Hofini and
Yunan, the rest, and Yunan Finhas. Then Moses, Moses had sons, but Gashom, none of them received
the mantra that was upon Moses, except Joshua. Elijah, sorry Elijah, the Lord actually directed
him and told him, you know what? There is a guy called Elijah, the son of Sepat. You go and anoint
him to be prophet in your stead. But then the interesting thing there is that the Bible says,
Elijah had the freedom to refuse. You told him, if you want to go to your parents, you go.
You told him, but then guess what happened? But you know, he couldn't. He could not refuse.
Guess what? He had received a measure of that anointing when actually he placed
a clock physically that an anointing from that time came upon him spiritually. That's why actually
he goes and he, the business that he was trying to, meanwhile, Elijah was called many years ago
and somehow that business had hindered him. But the time when he received that revelation,
he had now the power to kill all the oxen that he had. That's why this guy believes
Elijah was born a prophet. He was actually born a prophet. Maybe also what I want to put is
it's not always that mantras are transferred because the man has laid hands. You understand?
You get my point because the man has. Laying hands is not the quality of fire.
It's possible for a man to lay hands on you and his man to even if he wants it,
doesn't come upon you. It's possible to get a mantra by laying on of hands like Joshua.
It's also possible to get a mantra who died way back. You see Elijah and Elijah and in the
realm of the spirit, I think. No, guess what? Actually, you imagine how did John the Baptist
carry the mantra of Elijah and then also let me support a disclaimer.
You put a disclaimer. Yes. When you get a mantra, you also grow in the mantra when the
Baptist moved in the spirit. But you see the thing is, okay, time has killed us.
But the thing is, you see, Benny Hinn now, let me get it. Let's say Catherine Coman, whatever
it's flowing on him. You can't, you can only position yourself for that mantra as long as
he is still operational because the operation of a man can end and he passes on the mantra,
but he's still here. The same is true. Reinhard Bonke. He finished his journey,
handed over to Daniel, okay, and he's still here. So you cannot take a mantra from someone
who's active. Yes. Unless that man does something for the thing to be removed from him and given
to another. Yes, like those kind of things. Like actually, even for that thing to be operation
upon Elijah, Elijah had to be taken away. That when you see me taken away, then you,
then it will be. So that means God can take mantras away, scenario, soul, soul and whatever.
God, God is the one who gives them, is done in charge of them. I don't think men have control over
them. Who have biblical perspective. Otherwise, we'll be giving our best friends. You understand?
Our wives. You understand? His control is it. So someone can,
well, the Bible does it because when someone might be asking what exactly, how do you differentiate
a mantra from an anointing? One, I believe there are signs and authority that comes with the mantra.
One step. Sometimes you have to study the mantra to know. You understand that now at this level,
because like the sons of the prophet, there's an operation they saw Elijah doing and they knew
now this was no longer at our level. At our level, this one is now the spirit. So it is one, it is
the sand. But also, I believe like mantras, leave alone that there's too many details, but mantra
mantras flow in line with dispensations. Okay. There are certain mantras that cannot be active
in certain dispensations. True. I believe so. Because you see, now the Bible says about these
end times that it says who will come. And that's not coincidental. You could have said Jonah will
come. It's specific. It says Elijah. And the two witnesses, okay. Elijah will come. We know one of
them might be Elijah. Because Elijah will come. And the other one is something Moses others say,
public. Because of your name. Okay. But I believe like specific mantras flow during specific
dispensations because they have their particular. Or will we say they are relevant? Because
there is one. Okay. The one relevant. Because John the Baptist still has the mount of Elijah.
But there is a time where he had to decrease and he just increases. And there's no such thing as
the amount of Jesus. Yes. It's upon the church. Now Jesus is still operating. He's still putting on
his mantras. You get the picture. So the relevancy and I'll say the spearheading. So it's also
possible to have a mantle that ashes in something. Yeah. Because I believe one thing about a mantle
is a specific assignment attached to it and responsibility. And as long as that assignment
is finished. And anointing has to do with operation. Yes. More than it does with structure assignment
and mandate and all that. Oh my God. How many minutes do we have? Five. Five minutes. Okay.
That's the time can run. If only we're living in the realm of eternity. Yeah. Okay. So we've
understood then that in line with the thing of fatherhood, I need people to understand that.
When someone is a father, they're operating as a source. It is very possible. This is very,
very important. It's very possible. And this can happen even with an instructor. For a person
who you look up to not to be involved in a gifting in line with your calling
and still be your source. So for example, I'm just giving an example. I could be, okay,
Kenneth Hagen might not have been a good singer. But if you're called to singing and you're connected
to him, the anointing upon him can open a dimension of singing for you. That's how that's how
Moses and they craft me. Yes. Moses was not a crafter, but actually an anointing came from him
to certain men to whatever to interpret his vision. And because some people will look at
the way they would choose people to sit under is just looking at the physical things. Yes. And I
was about to ask, so just in closing, how does someone know that this is supposed to be my
spiritual father? Because in this, unfortunately, in our times, we wear people all over the place,
you will have people who openly tell you, that's my spiritual father, then this is also my spiritual,
that's also my, because they're sitting under different men and women. My answer to that first
and foremost is you'd rather not have one than have the wrong one. Okay. Then I'll let you guys
answer the rest. I'm curious. Okay, go ahead. Quick. You can tell, you will tell because
the spiritual father will connect to you spiritually. So one, you'll have the Lord will
lead you there. It's not going to be like, like you, you didn't choose your father in the natural,
and neither actually do you choose a father in the spirit. That's a nice analogy.
So that one can can tell you where. So and then when you meet the father, he will, he will somehow
know. So meaning the spirit of God will open your eyes to see it. I like using the example of
Jesus who was available for you to have taken him as a king, even as a child, took a revelation.
When it comes to people, because they brought gifts, submitted them and bowed to that authority,
the concept of submission, it takes revelation. But it is not a sin not to have a father.
It's not a sin because I believe institutions have also fathered people.
And also I would like to say that there's no such thing as a person who's supposed to father the
whole church as in who's supposed to be a father of everyone in every church. No, no, no, I don't
believe in that. You understand. Even Paul, Paul agreed and said he was Paul, he was Apollos.
You understand? Yes. He didn't take Apollos's congregation. Well, your father, if he's your
father, I should just be happy that he's yours. Then I also be happy that mine is mine. I can't
meet you and say, why are you with that father? No, no, no. You come and come to mine as if you're
good. Okay, ladies and gentlemen. What a way to wrap up. We could have said a lot of things. But we
want to say thank you very much. Apostle Enoch, thank you so much for sparing your time. Dr. George,
I know you're supposed to be in the hospital, but the revelation of the spirit drew you here
out of the wilderness. Thank you so much for coming to be with us. And my co-host,
Afimani Mclean, God bless you so much. We could have discussed so many more things,
but thank you so much for listening to us. See you next time.