Hello everybody and welcome to the RGM podcast. My name is Rabbi Daniel Malinga. Today I'm
excited to host musicians, one who is starting out in the industry and the other who has been very
experienced. On my right, we have Coupie Bly. Thank you, thank you, thank you, I'm so honored to
be here. The gospel artist, the one who's been there, Danix in it. We're just so happy to have you
and whatever it is you're going to share with us, I'm sure people are going to be very blessed to
hear from you. Glory to God, I hope they are. And on my left is Nandra, the soul queen or the
princess. So whatever you call yourself, she's just very brand new in the music industry. Very
fresh. But we have two sides that I feel are going to feed into this. And then we have my host,
Afimani Mani Bagz-McLean. Afimani you're very welcome. Thank you man, good to be here as well.
The conversation is going to flow as it always does. So I guess I'm going to start out with the
question. I'll start with Coupie. Since you've been in the music industry for years, briefly,
how did your story begin? Well, I usually say it's like I just gamble into it. I have always
loved music from when I was a kid. I later on got to learn my parents from musicians. My dad
still sings in a choir now. It's called Heaven Bound Choir. Sorry, Golden Hub. Heaven Bound is the
church. Golden Hub Choir. Yeah, but they belong to that type of vocal choirs, you know, that style
of music. So me growing up, I actually discovered, of course I used to sing in Sunday school and I
led a few special songs and stuff. But in my P4, around P4, P5, I was a scout and I became the
troop leader. So when we went out camping, I used to lead the campfire songs and stuff. And you
know, people say, oh yeah, you know, you're good. And meanwhile, I was at St. Savio in your school by
this time. And I was trying, you know, you keep trying out to see where you belong, your footballer,
your basketballer, you know. And I once I was very bad at other things. Yeah, you good at football?
Yeah, not very bad. Okay. What number would you play? I used to play number three, actually.
Oh, so you were defender? Yeah. Okay. So, but I realized people, the music made, I stood out.
You know, you can be a mediocre at other things, but music I was standing out. So, and it was all
pointed out at the, the scouting camps. So when I remember when we got back to school, I had,
for some other reasons, I refused to join the school choir because of, you know, when you're in
like boarding schools, the choir used to train in the time we had to, to have what they used to call
our sports time. So like the time you have to go and play soccer. And now for them, they had to go
and, and I was like, there's no way I'm missing, I'm missing my sports time for this. So I had,
I had totally refused to join the choir. But when I came back from the scouting trips, I said, you
know what, let me give you a chance at a try. And I went in and I realized I was good. I was
already very good at playing drums. So I picked it up from then on. I've never looked back, I would
say, around my P7 vacation, I recorded my first song at Dream Studios. Dream Studios was one of the
biggest studios. Back then, yes. So by the time my, my, my dad had left for UK, for J.O. And
my mom, both of them had left actually, because there is no way they would have allowed me to
do music if they were both around. So I started doing it undercover, underground, because I didn't
want them to know. I come from a very humble background. So, and back then, parents were not
very enthusiastic about letting their kids become musicians or anything. We didn't have good examples
back then. So everybody thought once you join music, you're basically getting spoiled. So
I had to keep it on the, on the law so they don't find out. The passion was so much. I loved it so
much. So when did you do your, your first song? Yeah, 2002. That's 2002. Yeah. What's the name?
The first one was Koshia Inimani. I ended up doing it like three times. So I did it. And when I
got to school, to my secondary school, that was St. Henry's College Tovo, it stood out. Back then,
of course, not, not many kids had, you know, like recorded songs. So it stood out. And I think in my
S2, I had some friends who are in higher classes like S4 and one of them asked me to, to do a remix
to that song. So he actually passed away. He was called Romanica. So we went with him back to
Dream Studios and we did a remix to Shia Inimani. He was a rapper. And after that, in my S3, I did
a song called Glorify, I think. Glorify. Yeah. And yeah. Okay. So that was the transition of how you
began and went into music. What about you Sandra? You're just beginning, yes. You're just beginning.
But, but, but at what point did you realize that you, you want to be a musician? I'm personally,
I realized I wanted to be a musician. No, like, throughout school, I always told people,
yeah, I already know my future. I don't know even what I'm doing here.
Like I kept on telling people, I'm really wasting time in school. But so I kept on telling them,
I'm going to be a musician. But then in, when I went to university at campus, I, I started recording.
But that song will never see the light of day. Why? What's the name of the song? It cannot see
the light of day. In fact, I have not seen it. It kept like as if it's a trophy. So in a Pandora.
You hide your song as well, eh? Because, man. I'm not trying so much to hide, but it can, you can't
get it as well. The production was, and the voice was, but the passion was coming through. Yeah.
So I, yeah, that's when I started recording at university. But then just like Koopi Gly, we've
grown up with parents who are like, yo, bad degree. Give me my degree. So you're thinking,
man, let me first finish this degree, give it to my mom. Then I actually pursue the music thing.
So I actually took long to pursue the music because I recorded that song and then I slept
on the music until when I finished school, then that's when I actually joined choir. And then, yeah,
that's when, okay. Before I bring in Maki, I noticed, so you're Nandra and you're Koopi Gly.
How do you come up with these names and what are your real names? Okay. I, I always tell people
Koopi Gly is still my real name, but okay. My bad name is Oksas Rehmanuele Edwin Seluanga. So
just trying to also have PT on the MCs. No MC will spend his much time
so you try and find some, but mine actually are two particular words,
Koopi Gly. So the name basically translates to miraculous chance. So miraculous favor.
Okay, Koopi Gly, miraculous favor. Yeah. Oh, that's very interesting. Big, big, big testimony.
I don't think anyone calls you by your other name anymore. No, not many. So I have a nickname
they used to call me in the ghetto. So if somebody calls me that name,
you know the ghetto guys. I just know they know me before. Can you tell us the name?
It's only a reserve for the ghetto people. Okay. And then people, people, my dad,
my dad calls me Edwin. Okay. I've never had him call me.
And people I went to school with, some people call me, right?
Very, very, very few people call me Seluanga. I actually, you may have to call me like a
thousand times before I reply to that. I, I'm not used to that name as well. So,
but most people, of course. Koopi. Okay. And what about you? I mean, there's no science there.
First of all, I'm called Sandra and then the name, I won't speak the name. So I took the N
from the other name of my surname and then removed the S from Sandra and just put the N.
Some creativity.
Now, listening to Koopi Blight, because I know you, you, you don't know me, but I know you.
There are a couple of people in this room who know you like me. We actually grew up dancing
to your music. And I remember the first time we had a boat, I was actually with him, Gilbert,
the guy behind and the cameras. I remember that time we were also doing dance ministry.
And we had been invited to minister at, by then it was called KPC North, which is now at Oton North.
And that's when you just released one of your songs, which now is under law. You know, and it
was your hit song. Just mention the song. It's, it's, it's when you just released Boaka in 2010.
It's when you just released Boaka 2010. And the reason I bring this is because there's so many
people who have listened to your music, they've jumped to your music, have grown up with your music,
they've been inspired by your music, but they don't know some of those songs and they don't
know that you're actually the voice behind those names. Okay. So just before I let you, you know,
just share with people a few of the songs and the inspiration behind some of them.
I'll just give you one for example, where buddy? I don't know what you were thinking when you wrote
that song. But for me personally, I had that song on my favorite. You understand? I used to listen
to it all the time because it was a testimonial kind of song, right? So in part of the lyrics in
the song, he says, I, I was complaining about not having shoes until I walked out on the street
and I found a guy who doesn't have legs. And that's when it hit me. Wait a minute,
your issues are smaller, man. You need to be grateful. You know, like we're buddy. So I was like,
that's nice, man. You know, and it's content like that. Yes. I liked the poetry in that exactly.
It's content like that. That got us hooked to people like you. You understand? And so if you
could just share with people, just some of those songs that for you, you felt like they also put
you out there, but people usually reason it a lot with because it spoke a lot to their lives.
Well, first of all, thank you. You must have been a real fan.
A real fan from back then. Yeah. So yeah, definitely the song that
say kicked the door.
And if I was talking about so many vices in the community back then, homosexuality,
corruption, and so many other things. So that kicked it for me. That was the breakthrough.
song for me. That was 2010 at the university. I usually like to give this as a testimony that
people don't realize that I recorded my first song in 2002. And I had my breakthrough 2010.
Yeah. Eight years later. Yeah. So I went and I was recording. So you had songs in between that
I had so many more songs that, you know, people didn't get to work actually became my first song.
And some of the other songs like Kolonga came, I had recorded them earlier, but they hadn't
got an airplay. So after work, people are now asking them down. And I remember I used to take
my music to some of some stations and they never used to play by that by that. By then we used to
have CDs. So I remember one station actually had a stack of my CDs. So after Boaka became a big hit,
they went through this. And before, you know, by the way, he has a new one.
So basically Boaka and Neweza sit down challenge. Oh, Neweza was good.
Yeah. Neweza was good. So like you kept asking me that question and I kept telling you the reason
I don't have a favorite song is because by the time I'm releasing that song, by the time I'm putting
that song, or by the time I'm writing that song, that is my favorite song. My music is
very self-inspired. And you know, just the hustles, the daily hustle. So by the time you write a song
about Neweza, you are going through a situation. That one, that situation, you understand.
So you were going through something.
Some deep temptations. Yeah. I was at campus by then and you know, Boaka now kind of come out.
You start getting all the attention you never used to get before. And you start realizing all,
you know, sometimes we keep telling people, some people are strong because they haven't yet been
tempted. So you don't, you don't think you are, you are steady just because you haven't been
tried yet. Once you get tried, that's when you realize. When Samson hasn't met Delilah, he thinks
he's steady. Still you meet Delilah and you're like, hey, how did I survive up to this time?
So yeah. So Neweza was that song and Siddam Charlo, of course, same story. Now I had these two
but this time now I started getting a lot of attention from everywhere. I'm performing
in churches, we perform in clubs. I had lots of friends who were circular artists. And now,
then that's when those lines start coming. You know, you would be making a lot of money if you
were a circular artist. You know, you would be making, you would be way bigger if you did this.
You know, and it's true. You see some of your friends that were, you probably even were in the
industry before them and they come, one song for you, you have like three big songs and for them
they have one big song and their life has changed around. You're already driving, they have moved
houses, you know. So and they're like, man, you're wasting your talent. So that's when Siddam Charlo
came in. They also, it was powerful. I love that. It was about like, you know, saying I know the whole
I know I'm not where I want to be. But you're not going to compromise. I'm not going to compromise
just because I want to be where you are. Actually, let's pause on there because we're going to touch
on compromises. But how many songs have you released, Sandra? Because the last time we
posted you here before, and your signature is love. Yes. And how many songs have you released
and what's your inspiration behind them? I've released two. There's one that I'm about to
release. It's my favorite now. Like what you're in studio, that one song that you're working on is
your baby. Like I've been even listening to it right now, like a thousand times. I'm like, man,
this song is killer. Then I actually remind myself that there are other songs. But yeah, I've only
released two so far. And my inspiration is that I love love. I love love. And when I'm seeing about
love for me, it's there is no greater feeling. There is no greater thing that God has ever created
God himself is love. When I when I've been recording this song that I'm about to release,
there's a part where I sang and I feel like personally, I need my man to come like
your man. My man is taking love. I'm like, yo, this is so deep, man. I am like, yeah,
like I feel like that feeling of being loved and to love is the best thing that has that has
ever happened to mankind. Yeah, it's me come off as a cliche of like, this one is just a caromantic,
she just doesn't like deep things. But it's just mine. But I noticed, I noticed one thing.
Your kind of music is different in the sense that he he presents himself,
Kupi Bly presents himself directly as a gospel artist, but you don't present yourself as that,
even though you're born again Christian. And how do you handle that? How?
Um, personally, I, I, I don't really want to come off as a gospel artist when it comes to my
me as an artist, because already I'm in a band, Coaches of Generation, where we sing gospel music.
But then as an individual artist, I wanted the world to embrace. I do want to pick a section
of gospel music here. I wanted the whole world to embrace everything that I am here,
because there's a time when we actually dissect and everyone puts you in a box,
that you're a gospel artist. So what about the world? So I feel like we had to take out,
I had to get out of a four walls here and go out into the world. That is why I've even not
yet taken my music to the gospel stations, because I don't want to be classified as a gospel
artist, because I feel like there is more to us as gospel artists that we have to offer the world,
because you see, we, we, I sing about love, but it's also easy for the people to be like,
no, she's a gospel artist or your moon to warfare, but no. Okay. No, we, we, we are to the world.
Yeah. Okay. Nice. Okay. So talking about this and what, what Coupier has just said, I want to
pick your minds on your creative process. Okay. And how you choose the way you're going to present
the lyrics. Okay. For example, like you said, you, you are a gospel artist. You present yourself
that way. You like to be associated and recognized in that capacity. Yeah. But for somebody who pays
attention to your lyrics, it's not like as though you're quoting scripture through your lyrics.
You understand? But if you're smart enough and you know the gospel, you will know that he's speaking,
his inspiration is coming from the gospel. Yeah. You know, for example, this song you released last
year, no touching. Yeah. I was actually just telling the guys that particular song. If you
listen to it, of course, yeah, it's like a jam. It's nice. It's the tune, but I get the message
behind it. Yeah. You understand? Yeah. You're not going to conform and you know, start sleeping around
and having sex and giving in before marriage. But no, no scripture quoted. Yeah. You understand?
But the message is clear. Yeah. But the message is clear, which is also what you're saying. So I
just want to understand in your creative process, how does that work? Or how do you do that?
Well, for me, I don't know. I did, I am an, I did arts in school. So history, I did literature.
And the literature, of course, helps. I realize sometimes
serving a message is one thing, but the delivery, the way you deliver the message is another.
You can either put people off to even listen to the message or you know, there are some
few things or messages that you end up listening to not because you actually want to listen to
the message, but just the way it's been delivered. And that's, and to me, that has always been my,
I remember when I was growing up, I listened to Papa's son a lot. And one time was being interviewed
and he said, you know, that's the thing. Jesus Christ was like he, like Jesus, like he was a
fisher of men called us to be fishers of men. He didn't give us a particular hook.
You know, you can use a net, you can use whatever the end, the end goal is to get you
so. And to me, my background, my background, I grew up in the ghettos. So my mindset, my
every time I'm writing a song, I'm writing to me. That's why that's why I said like my music
is very self-inspired. That's why, like you said, it will take you some time to realize,
I actually have very few songs where you can tell from like the first chorus. So
if you listen to most of my choruses, you may not even tell it's gospel music.
True. True. Because of, to me, I used it as a hook. I knew growing up in the ghettos, gospel music
is not something that is very marketable down there. So we know the beats are some of the things
that hook the people to listen to music. The language, the lingo, you know, and then
like the art in which you, you deliver the message. If you listen to most of my songs,
even Boaka, even Sidham Chalo, I actually had some hustles with some radios and Christian TVs
accepting those songs because. They weren't sure they were Christian.
Yeah, because by the time I deliver the message, by the time you really start hearing some
scriptures or some, it's towards the end of the song. But to me, my idea is you already hooked,
you can't turn it off. Once the, when the song is starting off and like, let's take an example here.
Let's say we are, we are Christians and we do, we do not like agree or believe in
what is it called, the voodoo or the witchcraft in witchcraft. So if somebody was here and put
on a podcast and you start hearing them or you as a Christian, you automatically before you even
know what, what is what is singing about or what you get, what I mean. So and to me, like
that's what like that thing came in of Papa's son. God didn't give us a particular hook.
He called us to fishmen. In every way possible. So use whatever you want. I know I'm artistic.
I know I can put a few lines together and by at the end, somebody's like, ah, so you know,
so I knew that was my hook. So that's what I used. And in a way, I believe by then somebody's already
too hooked to even, it's just like a fish when you're hooking a fish.
You don't, you don't put the hook very elaborate. They are saying, if you, if you test me, you are
gone, you know, put some worms and then, you know, and, and it, it, it, it look, it feels like it's,
it's invisible by the time. Sometimes the fish doesn't even realize it is hooked till it is
up on the boat. And that's, that's, that, to me, that's how I, I believed and when I'm writing music.
That's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking of myself back then. What, how would I get hooked?
What type of message would I, you know, and then I was very, I was very deliberate in
being very, very relatable with the current situations, you know, whatever. That's why
that's why I said the lingo is very, very, but I noticed how do you, how do you,
because Sandra is coming up and this is, I think also hearing this from Kupi Bly, we hope, but how,
because at times you had just started that story where you were saying that some would
want you to compromise. How have you told your line? Because the reason why I love you as a musician,
you've remained a gospel musician, not just by name, but in character, in your music as well.
You've told the line and that's something that's not so easy for people. How have you done it?
How have you maintained your line? Every time somebody says that it really humbles me a lot,
because I myself, I probably know myself better than all of you. So you haven't seen me sit up
somebody on TV, but you don't know what is inside my heart. The struggle is real.
If only. So anyway, but it's by the grace, by the grace, because we, anyway, when my parents
found out, this is something I haven't mentioned so many times, but when my parents found out I
was doing music, my mom sat me down and she explained to me the dangers of doing music.
And she actually said, in particular, gospel music, you know, she went through the whole story of how,
you know, Satan was the biggest musician in heaven. And she's like, that's what you see in the world
right now. Every bad habit, every bad thing that comes to the world is through music. And there's
so many other things. They're sportsmen, they're blah, blah, blah, blah, but music. Music has a power
that, you know, supersedes all these other powers. So she was like, you have to be very careful
when you choose to do gospel music. You have to pray like I don't know a thousand times more than
you were praying before, because by you doing gospel music is you painting a target on your back.
This guy has been there, chilling. He doesn't mind you, but now she said a few things. She says,
Satan knows what is awaiting you because he has been there. He knows the power that your music has
because he knew when he was doing music. He knows the rich because he, you know, so she's like,
of all people, this guy targets most. It's musicians. And she's like, if you think you've
been having temptations or you've been having hardships, wait. You know,
better brace yourself because now he's coming up like, you know, all guns. So you've had some
temptations in your way. So to me, I believe because of that earlier on knowledge, you know,
and understanding. I have been like, I don't see things just as the world sees them.
When something happens, I know, I know like the compromises. There is so much, there is so much
temptation for compromising. And it's, to me, it's exactly a non-temptation anymore. It is
like a pure strategy by the world and the devil. You know, they are basically,
they've drawn the lines. You know, you have for you to get here, you have to do this.
And they know as a Christian artist, you're not going to be able to do that. So most people that
don't have either this prior knowledge or understanding, they just say, well, anyway,
now you see even the other one. And you go for it. But for me, I try to keep, I try to watch out
more. And every time I, like I said, I don't say this much. But when people say, oh, you know,
you've been standing, you know, the Bible says for those of you that think you are standing
straight, you know, watch out so you don't fall. Because if you're standing, the person knows you
are still standing. So he's still coming. You know, so I keep trying. That's why I said, like,
it's by the grace, because to be frank, some of the things you have no human control.
It takes just that knowledge and understanding, knowing that it's not just music. It's not just,
you know, life moving on. There is a repercussion for everything. There is an end goal for every
single step. Okay. But what are your values? Because you're starting out and he's telling you
their strategy is the enemy has placed within the confines of the music industry.
What are your values? And have you developed them yet? And what are you willing to do to stay
within the lines? Me, first of all, I have to know who I am as a person, as a Christian,
because it's very tempting. You see, now the fact that now for me, I'm not labelling myself as a
as a as a gospel artist, but I come off as a she seems about love and so it might come off like
yeah, she's just singing for all of us and all. So sometimes the lines are blur for some people,
but I know my lines. I know where I draw the line. Like even last time when I was here, I
told you that I was doing a photo shoot. And there are some things that like, yeah, man, I think this
will appeal to people since because you're doing this kind of music. But then I'm like, no, I know
where my line is. Yeah, I know how I'm supposed to look. I know the image that I want to give to
people. I want I love I love copies line of he never gave us a hook he like you use whatever the
net or whatever you want to use as long as you're fishing. So personally, I feel like I want the
gospel to be felt in the words. Then, then of course, the level of a gospel artist. So I'm going
to keep my values. And then you will get to know the message after I just like what people have
said. So I feel like you draw the line yourself because the temptation is real, the temptation
of being a girl itself. Yes, as in your girl, then you have to do this, like there's so many
things. Because personally, I don't it's not like I have a label or a manager who's doing things.
I'm doing everything by myself. So it gets hard. So if you don't set rules and boundaries within
yourself, you're doomed to get all these temptations around you, like, oh, my God, me, I can do this
for you, but at a price. No, the reason I asked that question is because and Maki will come in after
is because man, I'm meeting a lot of Christians who say, you know, by dominion, by all means possible.
You know, God sent us Jesus sent us. So if it means doing things the way the world does them,
then, you know, we're going to have to go down that route. Maki. Yeah, just in line with that,
like Fukubi, because for now, we're just yet, you know, touching on your music and stuff like
that. And we'd like to go much deeper, you know, talk about your, your, your personalities, the
things, you know, your, your gifting, you know, and how you honed that and stuff like that. Other
things that have to build that. But with all of this said, what is your support system? You know,
what's, do you have people around you? Do you keep a certain kind of people around you? Do you,
you know, like when times are hard or when you get certain things where you need to question
yourself and you feel like, man, you know, like, I've really, because I can understand. I know what
you're saying. Back then, and Gilbert can remember this, even when we're still doing dance ministry,
I tried a stint at music as well. Yeah. And I remember that time we, we would take our CDs
also to the radio stations and stuff like that, and they would never take it because it's gospel.
Basically, meaning you turn the other chick a beat or something like that, and then you can become
acceptable. You understand? But then for you who has been in that field, all this time with all
these songs and all the awards and the attention that you're getting, I'm sure you've had people
approach you with certain offers, you know, with certain ideologies for you to front,
for you to be an ambassador for certain values which you don't stand for. What's your support
structure? So I usually want to give credit to my parents, my family. My dad is a pastor. He wasn't
a pastor when I studied music. It was the end way much later. But we've always grown up in a strict
Christian background. And my parents were really open. And I've seen us like I'm the first one.
We're only two kids, man, my sister. So I've seen us hustle through the ghetto. So when my dad sits
and tells you something, what we are mainly because of the grace and you know, I know what
he's talking about. I know they hustle like, you know. So I want to say first of all, I had that
background of parents who could sit me down and talk to me. The other thing is
I'm very peculiar with the friends I make these days. But you know, growing up in the slums,
it's, I always tell people like one of the things when we were leaving the ghetto,
we used to live in Katre. Biggest thing I was very worried about was having a perimeter wall.
For some reason, people who haven't grown up in the slums would understand. But to me, I felt like
prison. In the slums, you would go play with whoever just, you know, now you have Ola Gawa.
Where are you going? Look, they get you get what I mean. So I think I'd been lucky that
by the time we moved to this life, I had grown up with a free world. And I, I don't know,
that's why I keep saying like it's the grace. For some reason, I had learned how to limit myself to
know, you know, the boundaries, not to follow the peer pressure. And that is really hard. That is
like the biggest thing. Also, when you're still a kid, when you grow up to a certain age, it's
much easier. But before when you want to fit in, you just do whatever what, what everybody does,
you know. And I want to say bless the Lord for he gave me that courage to be able to
to know. Well, yes, 99 people are doing that. I'm the only one not doing it, but I know what
they're doing is wrong. So I don't follow the numbers. And sometimes it's also good to take
a step back. You may not have the answers. Like I usually tell people, you may know that this is
not letter A. But because of the shape of the letter, you don't know what letter it is. But you
know, it is not a, you know. So I'm like, yeah, I don't, I know that is, and people say, no, this
is a, this is, and you're like, no, it's not a. So what is it? I don't know, but it is not a. So
sometimes I know I don't have the right answer or I don't have everything sorted out. But I know
that it's not the right thing. You know, so I'm saying people should normalize the taking a step
back and maybe waiting for you to learn and read the most so you know which letter it is. You know,
like in the in the Luganda alphabet, there is that letter. It's called it's not in the English
alphabet. So if somebody pointed that out to you and they say this is G, because it looks like
most people call it G, say, no, this is not G. This is not G. So what is it? Now you're
going to understand what it is. So you just say it's not G. So in life, some of those things
happen. The compromising situations are so many, but when you have had this background of knowing,
and to me, like I call it being blessed by a burden of knowledge. And that's why I count myself lucky
because the knowledge I have, maybe because of the upbringing, because of I grew up with both my
parents, who are Christians, who are loving, who are, you know, some of the guys who grew up didn't
have that opportunity. So they do not have, they didn't have the access to the knowledge, to the
understanding that I do, that I do possess. And most people don't know something about you
that you told me we shared when we were talking. You said you actually went to a discipleship
class for one year, was it? Yes. But that was way later. And still the thing that pushed me there
was because of that, like, that foundation. Where I reached a time and I was asking myself
questions and I didn't have answers. And I'm realizing, you know, I'm now becoming more popular,
I'm becoming more, I'm like commanding a lot of influence, but I'm not very sure about what I am
actually commanding. So I started questioning my body form. One of the biggest things that took
me to the high school was my dreadlocks. I was worried, I'm like, there were people who were,
of course, who had a problem with the dreadlocks. I had already had so many encounters and people
saying, no, you need to cut it off, you can't, you can't be a ghost boy, you know. To my knowledge,
I knew it wasn't. You were something. But I didn't have, like, I didn't have
I used to brand say, God, come up from heaven, talk to me and tell me it is okay.
Because then you realize you are seeing now so many kids. I want them to be artists and they are
all going with dreadlocks, all because of Koopa Bly, and now some start coming up with other funny
styles and all so many other sorts of things because they are using you as their measuring
and then I'm like, what if I'm, you know, so my level of knowledge I had then I felt I needed
to expound I needed to and and again, an opportunity availed itself and I took it up. I know to me,
I counted credits on on my side because I know so many other people that have been availed by
the opportunities by the chance that I I did and they didn't take it on. Okay. Okay. Nandra,
I know you're too, you're young in your music career, but you keep saying that I keep saying that
because there's a certain group of people and I need to emphasize it that you're actually
talking to people who haven't started. Yeah. And have you already found compromise along the way?
Yeah, definitely. You will find it, especially when you're beginning out, especially in this
generation. Yeah. That's one thing. That's one thing I blessed the Lord for. That you're not in
this too. When we started out, I'm like banang, how are we going to raise kids in this generation?
Back then, it was very much easier. They refused you to perform, but there were not so many
places to sing. There was no TikTok. Back when I started my music, there was no YouTube.
That's that to me, that was a God-given gift because that's how I was able to hide my music
from my parents for that long because once it hit YouTube, but the cat was out of there.
But the generation now is very like there's so many. It's not have access to so many things. Yeah, like
your control is so limited now. So I blessed the Lord that maybe some of us, when we were
starting, and you know, that's why I keep saying that, you know, I always say, you know,
where the Bible says that God cannot give you more than he knows you can handle. Maybe he knew.
I feel it's it's for me. I'm going with two things. You see, when you are a lady in a music
industry, you have to talk a certain way. You have to talk a certain way. And especially
you're talking about love. So how are we to believe you? How are people supposed to believe you?
So you're you're you're caught in in a place of what am I supposed to do? You need to know
your grounds because now you see when a guy is saying about love, or when he goes to studio,
or he wants he wants to make to do a show or sing a song one or two on a certain show,
it's easy for because he's a man. Yeah, it's going to be hard, but it's not going to be harder.
But then when it comes to you, a woman, first of all, you're going to first measure your look.
Like, what do you have to say? Like, who's backing you up? What are you wearing? What are you wearing?
Like, you don't bore us. And you've already gone through some of this. And I've already gone through
it here. And you will get it. Like, when you go through it, and then you're like, Oh, maybe maybe
I can make it a little my scat a little bit. Maybe then they will make take me seriously.
But then I thank God also for my parents here. I grew up with a single mom who was very tough
and and and man, yeah, there are things you will do. She's like, No, you're not going to do that.
Yeah. And then I thank God for my spiritual father because he's not going to tell you don't put on a
short skirt, but he's going to give you the eye of like, So when you walk up, you just do that.
And then I always feel him at the back of my mind. Like, if you do this, really, when you go back,
we shall deny you. So I thank God for the people that are in my life in a way that I know that
kind of are my what's the word? My pillars. So like, you're kind, you're like, You know what,
I'm not going to do that just for me to get somewhere. Because the fact if when when you
talked about values, when you know your values, and you know that is the law that sent you,
then you know that he will take you at his pace. Because the problem what the problem that we do
is that we compromise thinking that we are trying to drive things faster than how the
Lord wants to take you like at his pace. Because sometimes you're like, No, if I did this and did
this and did this, probably got some naked guy and in a video and then you're thinking,
Yeah, if I do that, I'm going to get more views. And then it's going to move so quickly. But I'm
like, No, they have actually recently have actually been searching out artists who have
made it without the compromise. Yeah, it's it's that. What did you come up with?
I, I, there's this lady, oh my God, there's this lady that Sarah actually sent me. She sings on
she sings jazz music. And she want to grow me. And man, I've never seen a covered up artist like
that. And she want to grow me. And I'm like, this chick stuck to her roots. And then the fact that
she does jazz music that is not even heard of in this generation. Well, why you just grew up.
And I'm like, you're very stable. In a world where pop music is everything. Yeah, where pop music
is selling like, Yo, if you don't do pop, we don't know what you're doing. And then someone's like,
No, I'll do my jazz music. And I'll put on my clothes. And I'll look how I want. And I'm not
I'm not going to do bbls for you guys to see that I'm all shaped up. No, I'm just going to look
how I want. And then for some reason, she want to grow me.
Interesting. Yeah, interesting. Now I'm going to shoot two questions here, because you raised up
the issue of likes. And I like the issue of likes, because likes and views, likes and views, likes
and views actually also just release the piece on that on my own platform, because of the same
kind of interest, you know, the attention to it. In terms of likes and views, when you guys are
releasing music, and this is to both of you, is it the thing that you are aiming for? And when you
don't get views or likes the way that, for example, when you're in the studio, you feel like this is
the jump, you know what I'm saying? Like the people around you tell you, boss, that's it. Like
this is the one way you're going to break through. And then you release it. And the likes are not
adding up. And the views don't add up. You understand? How do you guys relate with that kind of feedback
to, you know, get the extra energy to keep moving on? Well, for me, I would say, first of all,
we are very lucky, like I said, when we started music,
but this is something people need to take in. The Bible somewhere talks about
lighting your light and then covering it with a cup. When you do a song, you want as many people
correct to listen to it, correct to get the message you're passing out. But this is where
the word compromise comes in, comes in, and this is where people have to be very
careful. See, I will do a song. Everybody, I don't think there is a person who says,
I want to record this song and I listen to it myself. So there are things just by the knowledge
of the sphere you're in, you know, that if I'm to be, I want to win premiership. I need to do this
and this and this. I need to have either good strike, you look at your team and you know, okay,
we are lacking strikers. So maybe I need to buy more strikers. Same thing with the music.
When you're putting out a song, you look out for those things that are driving the message.
And I'll give an example right now. Right now, in Africa, what is it called? Afrobeat,
Afrobeat is driving everything. Some time back we had the Lingala, the Congolese.
There was a time for Jamaican. Yeah, time back we had the Jamaicans. That was our
everybody was Jamaican. It's how we ended up with the names like kopi.
You know, but if one of all, like the vehicles you are using, because that's the target,
you want to reach out to so many people. If the vehicle you are using does not lead to compromise,
that's okay. But now I want you to get, I don't know how I can try and elaborate this.
Sometimes you may have, yes, you may have a vehicle that you can drive from Kampala,
let's say from home to the city center. But along the road, you know, I need fuel.
I need good tires and I need the engine working. Those are three.
Now, this is where the the tricky compromising situation start coming in.
Now you need to have, let's say the traffic officers on the road, you either need to have a good
unauthentic driver's permit or whatever those stickers are, the tax stickers.
The third party is the licenses and stuff. You either have them, or if you don't have them,
because of so many other reasons that can lead you not to be having them. You're going to have to
pay bribes. You get it. Or you're going to have to print fake ones, because your biggest
goal is to live home to get to the city center. So same thing with the music. Sometimes you realize
well, I have the beat. I have the message like Nandra said, well, I can dance. Dancing is not the
problem. How you dance is a problem. So even with the music, the message is okay. But how you
deliver it? Because people will tell you now, ah, ah, we want you to, you know, yes, you can dance,
but we want you to dance like this. You get it. So you end up realizing that along the way,
there are so many things that what I call ad libs that may not go in hand or
that may not work straight with your principles or your values. But because you are dying to get
your message out there, you start saying, anyway, I will not stand here and say I have never bribed
a traffic officer. I do that. God forgive us. Like that's the thing. In Uganda, you actually,
it needs you to sit back and realize what I'm doing is actually seen. Because in our, it's
kind of like. It's an option. You feel like you're actually just blessing the officer.
But realistically, it is a sin. It's corruption. So how do you guys, so how do you handle that
that pressure? And now that's what I'm trying to say again. Like, do you see like how I've said
that even me, Christian goes for artists and blah, blah, blah. I sometimes I catch myself
driving over a few meters and say, I've actually just given in a bribe. I could have said, you know,
but in that moment, you don't realize, you're like, I need to get there. So officer officer.
You know, so even in the music, sometimes that happens. And you're like, no, anyway, it's not
as long as it doesn't distort the message. So to me, that's, and those are the hard lines,
the, the blurry lines that people have to watch out for. More so for Christian artists. Because
like I said in the beginning, the devil has corrupted the system so much that you made,
you know, you will not get there if you don't do blah, blah, blah, blah. So it takes you having
that knowledge and understanding and being at peace with it. Like you said, that lady you said,
I really need to know her who won a Grammy without, you know, compromising, compromising herself.
But out of a hundred, how many are there? You realize, so somebody will sit down and do
the mathematics and say, she was the only one in like 40 years. That means, am I willing to wait
for 40 years? So definitely there is no way I have to compromise. You get it. So it takes a
level of maturity, a level of knowledge and understanding, because let's face it.
It doesn't matter how good your message is. It doesn't matter how beautiful the, how sweet,
how delicious the food is. If you deliver that food on a dirty plate, that food is not clean.
You know, I was telling, I was telling a few people that even when it's similar, the acting world,
both of them are entertaining, movie world. They are actors. Denzo Washington set grounds from
day one. I don't kiss in movies. Yeah, I don't kiss any other woman who's not my wife. Who's not my
wife. Okay. The rock set the same standards. Okay. And then here we hear some Christians saying,
listen, if you want to make it big, you have to. You have to compromise. And that's the thing.
Thank you for bringing that up because sometimes it's those things because
like you, you have to reach a time where you realize because the world makes it look like,
hey, it's just acting. You know, even my wife knows it's just acting. But where do you draw the
line? Just acting. It's the same thing with the music. Like it's just music and it's just, but
you need, see, the devil likes that. The devil thrives where they are blind. Because for you,
you don't know. You don't realize. But just because, you know, sometimes we think it works
in our advantage, but it works in his advantage because you want to know that you have crossed
a thousand miles to his side yet. Because for you, you would think you are still here in the
non-management, you know? At a certain point, you will have to do collabs.
And that's when we shall know.
No, when it comes to collabs, you see recently, I think I love the fact that I'm also just starting
out because if I had, I added on to that song that I've told you that you'll never see the
light of day in 2010, then I think I would, you would see me with baby elves if I had released
music then. But then I just love the fact that I'm starting out now because now I think I'm wiser
and then I think of their things that I'm grounded in the word. Yeah, I'm grounded in the word.
Like there are things that when he talks about likes and views, I remember when I released my
first song, I feel this too. And the people who listened to it, they were like, oh, this song.
Man, you need a video. So I was like, yes, I need, I remember even I came to your place, I told you.
But I need a video. So I was watching. The masters have spoken. We need a video.
So I was looking for money, I was looking for money, but I knew that if I have to shoot a video,
then I have to put money for promotion, then I have to. So I kept on being on pressure and being
on pressure. And then I go talk to my spiritual father and he tells me, and he sat me down and told
me, see, Sandra, do not be in a rush to get views and likes or to be known by the world
because the Lord who has sent you is sure going to make it happen. And also you have one of the
greatest gifts in the world, which is music and art and art doesn't rot. Yeah. That's nice. So that
again, he said art doesn't rot. You're in a hurry to make a video so that you're known. But the thing
is right now you're trying to move ahead ahead of yourself. So if you don't have the money,
what are you going to do? He's like, relax. If you don't have the money, then relax. The
God who sent you, if he hasn't brought it yet, he has his reasons to sit down and relax. God record
another song and another and another the day you will get money for a video. And let me see someone
just discovers it. Yeah. And he says, and it hits, then they will look for all the other songs
that you have done. Just like he said. Yeah. So he said, do not be in a rush for likes and views
because as true, if the Lord has said, it is so going to happen. So I don't know that statement
up to now still. I thank the Lord for that. You brought in an interesting thing. I'm glad you
brought it in. Money. You know, because you've been in this. First of all,
how do you make the money? But even before that, like, oh, did you get people to support you to
put out your music out there? Because it costs money to make music. Tell us how you've done it.
What's your secret code? So starting out, I started off by selling my clothes. Like I said,
my parents, my parents were okay. So my dad never came back for like 10 years, 11 years,
that guy. I don't know how he did that. My mom used to come back every year.
And she used to bring me some good clothes. So remember, I told you I was trying to make sure
they never find out because I knew if they found out, they would say you don't do it.
You can't stop doing music. And I grew up being a very...
Rebellious. No, not very. Actually, to my parents, I was very...
Very obedient. So anything I knew they wouldn't want me to do, I made sure they never tell me
don't do it. So I hid or avoided or you get it. So I used to sell my clothes at school, save money,
come back in holidays, go to studio, record the song and the song is out. And I did that for
almost like four years by the time they figured out and they were a bit disappointed. And it was
cheaper then than it is now. My first song cost me 70,000 shillings. Imagine. Do you know what we
are going through nowadays? That was dream studies. So the issue is right now, Nandras mentioned
something that I actually go by. If God sent you a mission, He will give you the provision.
Yes. And that takes still a little bit of maturity for you to understand. You know, there is
understanding, knowing and then accepting. There is knowing it. It's very easy. We're easier said
than done. Yeah. Ah, you're looking for money for video. Don't worry, God will provide you.
What are you talking about? I went on to go deal when the song is going. People are loving the song,
you know. So it takes a lot of maturity to understand that. And I have testimonies in my life
that I have seen that happen to me. Where I know that me having this particular thing,
even if I add up all the money I have made from my music shows, it would never have saved
up enough money to buy this. You get it? Yeah, I understand. God brought it through.
Some particular person you didn't even know. Who is not even worried about music and I've
told people those many testimonies. I'll give, let me give it here. I'll try and cut it short.
Ah, I bought my first car around 2014, I think. Now, these are things people need to know.
Yeah. I've said I had a breakthrough in 2010. And I had the big songs that were winning,
artists of the year and blah, blah, blah. But you bought your first car in 2014.
I think 2014 or 2013. So the issue is the music grows so big and that's something
I've traveled all around the world and people keep asking, how can you be that big and you
that rich? People don't understand how, you know, it has something to do with the copyright
here in Uganda and stuff. That you can have a big chatting song that is winning awards,
it's playing everywhere and you're still very broke. You understand? So I had been doing that,
like I'd lived through that, but I had really made a promise to myself, I'm never going to
compromise just because I want a car. So many ways that and so many people that would have bought
me cars. Anyway, the thing is, I give this testimony. Anyway, I had my car so then it wasn't
such a big thing. I remember, I always keep telling people at one time, I prayed to God
when I was riding around on a boarder boat. Even if you give me a car, I don't care whether it has
the tires or what. And back then I was praying at these tukutukos and I didn't come so much.
Now when I see them, I'm like, my God, I don't know what happened, you're also in prayer.
So anyway, but it was, I was that desperate that I didn't want and I remember one time a friend
of mine is also a producer, he had a friend who like lent him his car and we were driving around
and you had to put all the windows down so people can see you in that car. And you know,
and the car didn't even have one of the windows. It had so many messed up things.
But because we were inside the car, you were feeling like you have achieved everything.
And anyway, so I'm trying to show you how desperate we were for cars. And around 2018,
I think, I happened to meet a group of people. The guy was actually Jewish, very old, about eight
years. He comes that come to look at the the organization and the work we do. And he's in
studio and I see he's very excited. I didn't know anything about this guy. And it's like, ah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. So I'm, I'm most shocked about an 84 year old man making the trip to Uganda.
I'm like, how are you handling this? I've never been to a studio before. So I'm
showing him the studio. I'm like, yeah, you want to record something as a gift to you,
you record a song and I will record a song for you. I will record it and you know,
bring it to you and as a gift for me, for you, having made the trip, you know,
and how can you be that old and you've never been to a music studio. So anyway, it's short,
long story short. I didn't know any background about this guy. And he he keeps repeating some
lines and I don't know what they mean. So I ask his friends and he says, yeah, it's the the theme
song for my club, for my football club that I support. No, so in Australia, there is a kind
of football they play. It's only in Australia. It's called Australian football. It's a bit a
mixture of rugby and soccer kind of. So it's a bit there. So I of course being Ugandan,
that that game is only played in Australia. So nobody else knows it. So and it is so big there
that you don't actually know like it's way more popular there. You can go to Australia and you
ask people about Messi and they have never heard of him. But they know all the players who play
that game. You understand? So anyway, and I like the guy. What I did, I looked up the song, I redid
the song. I did like African beats on it and you know, and he gave the guy the song, he went back.
All done. Within a few minutes, I'm starting to hear, I'm getting calls. The song I did, I didn't
even know the club. Like I said, I don't know about that sport. So I basically just looked up the
anthem and redid the song, you know, just to make him happy because it was the only song he knew
in his head. So that shows you how staunch over fun he was. Anyway, so before I know the song is
becoming big in Australia and blah, blah, blah, blah, and you know, I see how they start sending
me newspaper articles. Oh, Uganda and Rapa, you know, then the guy asks, can you, before actually,
before it became big, he says, can you do a small video for me about this song? Wow. So we actually
did, we didn't have money. And I'm like, why am I spending money on a song like this? I had
a GoPro. So we used the GoPro and we just shoot the video outside like the gate of the offices.
And we use some ghetto kids and blah, blah, blah, blah. And after that, it is one of my biggest
projects. The way it went viral in Australia. And I keep hitting myself on the head and I'm
saying, I wish I knew this song was going to go this big. I would have put in excellent video.
But then again, I remind myself maybe the reason it traveled is because of that. So anyway,
the song goes so big. This guy, the club flies me over. I go, I sing in the stadium. Wow. And
the club, of course, saying they want to pay me, people, fans of the club are saying we want our,
because you must realize the theme, the anthem of that club, the original song that they still
have was composed in 1880, some, you know, so many years back. It hasn't changed up to now.
Of course, now this one is more swaggerific. It has more upbeat, upbeat vibes. You know,
it's more youthful. So everybody's saying that's the song we want, you know. And the guys are like,
oh, what can we do for you? They supported the organization, you know, and they were supposed
to give me some very good music money. Anyway, again, because of my history and the kind of music
I do, me being a gospel artist and anyway, some politics came in. Some people,
anyway, I don't want to get into that. And this guy felt bad. Suddenly, now that it gets,
it gets to me that he's actually a very wealthy man. He's one of like the top eight guys of the
club. Wow. The top eight is in a position like the top eight. And they say for you, for you to join
that top eight, you don't join. Once you're in, you're in it for life. So until somebody passes away,
then an opening is up for another person. Actually, that gentleman passed away during COVID.
It was called David. But anyway, David says, you know what? I remember being with you in Uganda
and one of the hustles I saw you with was your van. He was saying it was a hustle. That radio
was a big blessing to me and the whole industry. We used to call it Noah's Ark.
When we were going for shows, it just goes and parks there and says we are not leaving anybody
behind. If you have to sit on your friend's head, you sit there. You get what I mean. But for him,
he had seen it. It had some mechanical issues and stuff. But anyway, and the guy decides to buy me
a car. It's not the best car anyway. He had given me a blank check. This is what I had to say
until he realized how expensive cars are in Uganda. And you know, anyway, he got me the car I have,
the Panjaro. And I keep telling people, if I'm to add up all the money I have made from music,
like shows, you know, I could not have bought that car. It would have, even if I made that money
and I had that money cash, I still couldn't have invested it in a car because I had so many
more important, so many other important things. You get what I mean. So destiny help us. The issue was
the thing I under looked like this song is the one that God used. God knew I needed that car.
And it came from something that is not what was planned. It was what I thought, where I thought
it should cause a friend of mine told me, you know, when the Bible says you rip what you saw,
most of us tend to think it says you rip where you saw. And unfortunately, most of us go for
artists. That's how we think. I have invested 10 million in this music video. When you don't see
yourself earning the 10 million back from directly from music, from music shows, music views and
subscriptions, you're like, it's a loss. But you have so and God will look through what you have
sold content and he will he will grant you your what a fantastic answer. That's amazing. But you
know, very many people didn't know the story of the Australian thing. I have told it to so many
artists because they go they keep asking and and to me like that thing made me relax so much on the
as chasing by our own strength or we need to build a house. How do you know then you and to be
realistic with the way the gospel music is going in your hand. You once you start thinking about
those things, you are definitely going to give up. That's true. But when you start hearing people's
testimonies, how this one got a friend, artist of mine was actually had the concert recently when
I had my concert as well. And a pastor just came from nowhere and gave him a car. This is first car
and it's a beautiful car. And we had had those stories from the second martinis and we have we
had been singing for years and no pastor has ever given me a car. So but would you realize now I'm
thinking oh okay now pastors will give now so many other artists will think I do a concert another
pastor will give me a car. No. God will bless you through other things and you know to me I have
wondered the car seems like a very minimal thing. Yeah. But I use it a lot because I know most of
the young artists like it's one of the biggest goals because you need to get because there's
nothing more embarrassing than being a star. You have makeup and eyelashes and then you have to
get a border. You get what I mean. Your wig is flying. And yet we know with the way the expenses
of the cars and the taxes here in Uganda as a gospel artist you are definitely I mean I don't
want I don't want to say you are definitely not going to do it but anyway God works in mysterious
ways but it is it's not cheap. It's not cheap. Time is flying very fast. We're already one hour,
13 minutes in but that's really interesting. Okay that's really interesting. Let me touch
something that we grew up hearing a lot in church. Just take the words don't listen to the voice
and whatever and stuff like that and it's until we became mature and realize no no no that's that's
rubbish that's not right. And I'm saying that because of what you've said. You reap what you saw
not where you saw. You reap what you saw. You understand. So for me my question is like for
you guys you have this gift because the theme of this particular session was giftings and that's
why we're talking about that. In your giftings you have the voices. You have the artistry. Okay
you can put together the words. Your poetry is it's amazing and stuff like that. You know your
vocals are good but have you guys grown under certain people? Have you sat at some point even
when you knew you're good and you can do this and you know you can whatever have you dedicated some
time to nurture this gift professionally because you know at the end of the day it's going to be what
I saw. Not just anything being put out there. He's asking if there's been a mentor?
Yes definitely. Personally I've had so many mentors. In music? In music yes. I've had so many
mentors but one that I actually sat under and I patiently waited until I grew as he's called
Pastor Dhoni. I remember I walked into his house that was 2014 I had gone for sale and I walked into
his house and I see instruments in his garage so I'm like what? This is what I've been like dreaming
over of my life because I was now out of campus I'm thinking I need to pursue this music thing and
then I see instruments I'm like I'm never living this house so I am like who owns these instruments?
They tell me it's Pastor Dhoni. He leads a worship team. I'm like okay so I meet him and I told him
I want you to train me and I sat under him for a while and he introduced me to most of the choirs
that I've been in even the one I'm still in right now so I sat under him and he told me most of the
things. He might not have taken me all through because he introduced me and then I took on my own
journey but there are things he used to say that he laid the foundation and then also
I went to music school yeah because he told me he had gone to music school so I went to music
school because I wanted to know more and I wanted to be a professional artist that he wanted to be
those artists that are just for you. From the wilderness. I wanted to understand things like
you know like because after now there's there's when you enter a studio and people just don't know
yesterday when studio and someone didn't know what keys are you know and we have someone working in
the studio. No one of the musicians didn't know that it for him he just listens to music he doesn't
know that there is K.A. or or F.O.D. she is like me I don't even know what that is me I just say I'm
like okay wow yeah that's the world of musicians we are living in. I'm telling you. Yeah so for me
personally I've been under meters and then I yeah I went to music school. What about you?
Yeah unfortunately I'm one of the people who don't know what keys are but still you came from the
wilderness. I came from the wilderness. At the beginning I said like I feel like I gambled into it
I have had opportunities to go to music school and I haven't done it. I have my personal reasons
uh to me I believe my style type of music yeah doesn't need to know. There's so many keys
but that is understandable. Yeah you get what I mean. And I always keep telling people that that's
why like people are like us who do like you know they rap the dancehall we appreciate people who
are vocalists. What's what's your genre of music? What would you? I would say more of a dancehall.
Okay so uh to me I don't I have had mentors. To me my biggest thing is not
the talent that you have because to me I believe talent is unlimited it is so much
I have seen so many qualified people over qualified people who have gone to music school and
they are doing rubbish. So to me my biggest thing is anyway this is the one I take it to me when
I listen to a song the first thing that comes to my mind that is me I'm more of a lyricist so I the
content matters to me much more than the beats or the vocals or and again that is me and the style of
like you know I I always say like dancehall artists and rap artists that that's what we look
out for. We never say oh that's a good beat because an artist doesn't get credit for the
beat because you're not the one who did the beat you get credit for the lyrics you get it. So uh I
have invested a lot in that to try and learn more to try and read more. Are there specific people
who have? Yeah like if you listen to all the people I grew up listening to I listen to them
because of their lyrics. Who are those? Papa-san? Yeah the Papa-san, Sekou Martin. Sekou Martin, yes.
Sekou is the second grandfather I need. I listened a lot to Lucky Dube listen to
Bob Mali. Again it's because of that reggae and the dancehall vibes it's very cautious music.
I know we have where we disagree with the Rastafarian beliefs but they are very very
cautious very spiritual. Reggae music is very spiritual music. Again it's the kind of music
where people concentrate more on the lyrics message than the vocals and stuff. So to me I believe
that kind of helped shape me a bit and again like I'm saying right now if you listen to the music
that is popular at the moment you get worried you know and that's why I'm saying like we were lucky
that we came out in a in a time when this wasn't then because back then like no reggae artists
has ever become popular for having the biggest beat or singing rubbish or anything. They don't even
pay you a you know they won't even give you an audience but these days people are getting more
attention actually because of a beat from the beat not even the beat singing nonsense.
Imagine he said that I know so people people even people who could sing sense and now lowering
themselves down so they sing to the standards yeah of the world everything just it's it's like a
quick fix this day you know it's like a fun thing like fast food you know just something for the
instant adrenaline rush a song that you will you will enjoy in the next two minutes and then they
play it again for the third time you say please yeah yet back back then when we were growing up
you listen up to now like the songs that were a thousand years old and you still think I see the
song is here and you listen to it as if it was recorded yesterday yesterday and to me there is
this thing uh there's an artist I remember they used to make fun about him and they said uh one of
those rappers who came up with those and I don't want to cut anything but they were doing that yeah
you know even rap music used to be about corn and then so these are the new kids coming and it's
all about uh apparently it got it got so bad one artist bill gets said how much money do I have to
pay you so you never have to sing again it's that bad and that guy is is is and anyway it's very
evident he was big for like six months and blah blah blah there's nowhere you know when you pick
something from the spirit it's eternal it's eternal yeah and when you pick something from the flesh
it just dies out to me I believe uh and this is why like you you asked some uh some question about
gospel music to me why it is so important and why I've stuck to to gospel because to me I believe
all these gifts giftings and talents are freely given I can't like I said and I like and that's
one of the reasons like I said why I don't want to stand here and say oh I have been to
to a music school I up now I can play you know how they say you can play to survive so you
don't run hungry yeah all and I run a music school and I can't play guitar like I can't
say oh I can play guitar like fully I can't play a full song but I can play a few chords
and you went to bible school but yeah the the issue is I to me I appreciate the music much more when
I know it's basically being lent to me like I don't deserve it I don't because sometimes I feel like
when you get you get so cocky you feel like I own it you attach to it I have I have achieved this I
have done this and I feel like I can yeah it's my it's my strength you know me every day what keeps me
humble is knowing I how did I get to this I I definitely don't deserve this you know so that
keeps you humble keeps you grounded yeah and it keeps you giving all the glory back to the gift
okay how many minutes do you have nice seven minutes okay seven minutes I want to ask a question
we won't have time to touch everything of course but there are things that you do outside of music
yeah and at some point you will want to do something beyond the music definitely tell us about Yimba
Uganda any other things that you've done that contribute to your call without you necessarily
singing yeah so yeah so we run an organization called Yimba Uganda and it does empowerment
to youth and again it goes back to my upbringing in the slums I realized the biggest thing we lack in
in the the ghettos is not skill or talent it's that training you know most of us most football
players will say oh I grew up and I was a good football player in the ghettos without training
until he gets good training that's when he makes it to the world stages so same thing with me I know
we have a lot of a lot of talent in the in the slums a lot of skills god-given skills that we need to
maybe sharpen a bit and when I was growing up again like I said once I made it through the music
industry that became like a big point for me because everybody in the I still have family
and cousins and auntie still living in the Katwe you know so everybody's looking at you because
they think you have made it you know oh your song is playing on tv oh you must have made it oh we saw
you at this show you must have so much money and you realize you don't and you can't help out as
much as you need so the biggest thing was always to give back to the community and we started you
know by doing free shows and giving out food and giving out clothes but those are non-sustainable
so we we change the model to a more sustainable approach teaching them how to fish yes yeah yeah
so so right now we're running by Uganda and it does what I get is for more sustainable income
generating skills so we do tailoring fashion and design we do the music mentorship program we do
the beauty here and beauty and we do set up godfans that's amazing so and it's grown since
2013 I blessed the lord for having given me a wife that shared in my dream and had a similar
educational background this is one thing I always tell kids to go to school when I was at
university studying what I'm doing now I never thought I would do yes I was basically saying
when Andra said let me get this degree and I give it to my mother he gets happy but now I've seen
how much my education has really contributed to the growth of this organization and we've been
doing that since 2013 every year we graduate over 50 students through these skills here and beauty and
recent god has blessed us with a chunk of land about 20 acres of land on
in Kuyonga along the River Nile and that's where we we're planning to put like the
big vocational school and of course we are being limited because of the space with these skills
of course but with the other big place we are going to add so many skillings you know
carpentry metalwork school structure and mechanics electricals and so we blessed the lord for that
it's still a big a big way to go yeah but we bless the lord we have already started
the first structure is actually being put up right now and we bless the lord for that
amazing and what about you Sandra anything beyond music that you're you're looking at
yeah definitely personally I went to Vichy in two movies you want to movie making or acting okay
acting definitely then
but no uh yeah movie acting is definitely one of the things that I want to do and then
radio presenting and uh and tv presenting is one of my terms and then uh
you see that's the problem that's that that's why I'm called the king of the day
there's so much that I feel like yeah yeah so Maki do you have anything final yeah just an
and final closing I think I'll just give the opportunity to to the two artists in the house
if you guys have any projects that you're working on now and because this is a platform the ideas
you know for us to all together build the kingdom so if you have any play if you have any projects
that are coming and where can people access them like for you and how where can people access your
music and stuff like that you know just in closing yeah well uh scoopy black everywhere so all dig
down uh music platforms yeah spotify any any dig down music platform the music is there so please
go look it up uh I keep putting so much music there latest album is the action talk we are working on
the next album coming up very soon oh yeah yeah so uh please keep your uh ears and eyes glued yeah
but uh well frankly I have no complaints I just bless the lord for and you know for having given
me the grace to do what I do and the grace to stick in there yeah you know but also the biggest thing
is uh I bless the lord for having given given me the understanding to do what I do with peace knowing
and appreciating the impact it has impacted the impact the impact does but also to know you know
that the peace of nonce struggling and all I need to do this when you know I know it's not me it's
him that leads and if he hasn't uh given me a private jet yet maybe he realized in his own time
I don't need the private jet yet but when he needs me to leave to fly from here to go to
South Korea and preach in the next two hours I'm sure the private jet will come nice beautiful mindset
man what about you um yeah I'm um I'm Nandja and um I'm releasing my song very soon my baby that
has been in the studio and I love that song so much but anyway uh yeah you can find it on all
streaming platforms yeah my music is mostly on youtube yeah there's some on the streaming platforms
as Spotify uh revab nation boom play we're going to show these links yeah yeah then uh you can also
actually just for instagram facebook it's all Nandra UG Nandra 256 awesome okay so as we conclude
thank you so much for coming both of you I know one hour and a half runs by we didn't touch everything
so quickly uh Koopy thank you for for taking your time off this is all right that's fine we'll have
you again some other time um when you have your private jet I hope we can have a put you in the
private jet but um one thing I love about uh you specifically Koopy since you've been like I said
there are many people who shout shout I'm a gospel artist but you've told your line
and you're a man of the word as well yeah you know your scriptures and so on and may god bless
you and increase you and as for you Sandra um may you be the line the standard we pray that you don't
kiss kiss anyway we're going to say god bless you afimani thank you so much for hosting yeah
god bless you and see you next time