Hello, everybody. Welcome to the AODM podcast. My name is Rabbi Daniel Malinga. My co-host
is here. You're welcome. Today is unique because I'm hosting my two baby brothers.
It's like a Malinga reunion. Yes. Raymond and Robin Malinga, who are the co-founders of
Creatures Animation Studios. They are animators. They've done big things. Today we're going
to be focusing and discussing things around purpose and mastery and how to hone your craft.
Gentlemen, you're very welcome. Thank you, man. We're going to go wherever the discussion
takes us. I guess the first thing I want to ask as we discuss is what did you want to
be when you grew up? When we were younger. When you were younger. Should I go first?
Yeah, go first. I've always loved storytelling. I just knew I wanted to do something regarding
storytelling, computers. I've always loved those two things. At that time I didn't even
know it was going to be animation. When I found animation, I was like, I found my purpose.
So you always wanted to be an animator? I wanted to tell stories and work with computers.
Okay, so you just didn't know it was, that's what animation was? Yeah. There's a lot of ways it could go.
It could have gone to gaming. It could have gone to a lot of stuff. But animations where I am right now,
but I'm comfortable with this medium as my way of putting what I want to put into the world.
What about you, Robin? Yeah, for me, initially, while I was really young, I wanted to be an actor.
I don't know, Jim Curry and... Robyn William. You know, they'll give these people this one, Eddie Murphy.
You had to be a comedian. Do you know why he just said Eddie Murphy? Because every single person,
whenever they see his picture, they always... I was about to say something about it.
Yeah. But I initially wanted to be an actor. In class, when they asked some time, I really hated the idea
that this was like, people, a teacher asked, what do you want to become? And then everyone, like, she went one by one.
People were saying, lawyer, doctor, lawyer, doctor, lawyer, doctor. So when it came to me, I just said,
I want to be a father. And the teacher translated it as father, like, from the church. But actually, I just wanted to be a father.
A Catholic priest. Yeah. But me, I meant like a father, like with the children. But very much so, as you grow older,
what you want to be keeps changing. So I went from actor and I've always been writing since I was young.
You guys know I was writing in those little books. And so very much so storytelling is also something that I was like,
I just want to tell stories. And I wanted to write. I thought it was about novels and stuff.
But here, we're in animation and it's more like a medium through which I'm telling stories.
What about you, Afi? Adi? I think for me, it would just be a business, successful businessman. But I want to use that.
It's what I always wanted. But I want to use that to be able to shift people's paradigms, because that's really where my strong suit is.
Okay, shifting people's mindsets to think a certain kind of way. So for me, that's it. But I use the business angle, you know, to approach it.
Because then from the results and from the knowledge and from the experience and stuff like that, you have people who look up to you
and then by the time they come to you, they're coming to you because of something. So they want to drink off your cup.
So you need to have something to pour into their cups. So for me, that's it.
You know, you guys are amazing because I wanted to be an FBI agent.
In many ways you are.
I wanted to be an FBI agent. So you can see how far off the cliff have fallen. I really want to be an FBI agent.
So the reason why we...
First of all, why did you want to be an FBI agent?
We used to.
So when we were growing up, we used to watch other movies.
Yeah, we know, but you tell everybody else.
You know, when they make these movies and you flush the badge with the FBI.
It always felt cool.
This is actually a true story. But this guy was obsessed with these police detectives and stuff.
So I always wanted to be that.
I get it now.
The detective thing.
The mystery.
That's what I'm saying.
That's what I said.
So I really wanted to do that.
But you guys are saying I'm doing it somewhere.
I'm far from being an FBI agent.
Okay.
An RDMA.
There are a lot of things that have shaped each and every one of us.
And made us aware at this very point.
Did you think that a number of years from now, I mean a number of years from then,
you'd be where you are at this moment in time?
And that's linked to the previous question.
I'll go first.
I'll say that there's hope that you would, you know.
And I tend to, Robin and I, funny enough, like Robin talked about the story.
He used to write stories at home, you know, and we all know those stories.
What he didn't know is that I was also writing, but the family didn't know.
So that's actually how we bonded.
You know, he found out that I was writing in my room.
And he was like, wait, you're writing?
Then we just started talking.
And you start imagining and projecting yourself forward and saying the possibilities.
You discuss the possibilities.
And in a way, we hoped we would, or I hoped we would.
And yeah, and I think that that's very important, you know.
It's very important to project yourself forward, you know, because that's what gives you the energy to keep on.
Is that the same thing as vision?
Yes, I think it is.
You know, you have to have that vision.
I think it's, in many ways, I'm just explaining that word vision.
I'm trying to break it down.
When somebody says you must have vision, you know, I think that's one way to put it, you know.
Project yourself forward.
And it's almost like a self-motivation tactic, you know.
If you can see yourself on a podcast with R.D.M., you know, right?
Start envisioning that, you know.
Start saying, if I was on that podcast, what would I say?
In many ways, it's like putting forward objectives and goals.
And you look at yourself in the future.
Because as a child, you think about things in a very childish way.
And as a child thinking that I'm going to tell stories, I'm looking at J.K. Rowling writing a report and I'm like,
I'm going to be better than J.K. Rowling, which is nice to have.
When you get older and you start having more aligned, more intentional views and goals,
you start now putting pins that you like.
It seems inconceivable, but I can probably work hard enough to get there.
But where did you guys get that mindset from?
Was it in school?
Because there are a lot of people that have gone to school and there are people out there who think,
okay, we have a disadvantage because not only are we in Africa, we're in Uganda.
And from off the bat, some people think we've started off with a disadvantage.
And here you guys are talking about from the time that you were young.
You had some sort of vision.
Where on earth did you get that from?
Where was that drive coming from?
The ambition, man.
I don't know.
For me personally, I think in my mind, I was always just like, if not me, how?
You see another person doing it.
They're only human beings.
And in many ways, I don't see any difference between myself and Steven Spielberg.
I'm like, if he could do it, he's only a human.
Yes, there are other factors around, but then it just means that you just have to work harder than him.
And that's what you keep on looking forward and trying to do it.
So you don't think place can be a disadvantage?
I think that you have to consider the factors that are surrounding you and the factors that someone else had.
And when you compare those two things, you have to go about it your way considering your factors.
And so to answer your question directly, because I do not want to minimize the idea that somebody's location and where they are cannot affect their ability to get something.
But I will also say that to answer your question, I'm adding on to what I'm saying, but answering your question, I think it's an incredible amount of self-awareness.
Being aware of your conditions, where you are, accepting that that is a reality, and making sure that you do not let that get in the way.
So for me, it's just curiosity, self-awareness, and just craving information.
I'm more interested in how Steven Spielberg or JK Rowling got to where they got to.
Because the more people you listen to and you hear about their stories, the more you realize that everyone has a different story.
And that means that yours is also valid too.
But I notice, because I'm going to bring in Maki here.
So I have a bachelor's degree in economics again, and I'm into ministry now.
Okay, how many of us here actually from school are doing what we studied?
Maki?
Yeah, I think I'm there, because I also have a degree in economics as well.
I'm also an economist, so for me the business part falls in.
You know, it makes sense.
But like I'm saying, if you were to ask me, when all is said and done, what would I say I did and I'm proud of?
I would actually be inspiring people, being able to uplift people through their mindsets.
You know, and which brings me to answer the question that you asked.
All right, and for me, I think it's the perception, perception matters.
Okay, you can be in an environment, but the way you look at things matters.
So I usually tell people, see, you have two ways of looking at something that is not right or doesn't feel right to you, okay?
And the two words are problem or challenge.
You decide to look at something as a problem.
You've already created a mental wall around, you understand?
A blockade.
So now you can't think outside the box.
The box, you're now in panic mode, you're demotivated and everything.
If you look at that same issue as a challenge, it's different.
The way you approach it is different.
So there's some energy that you have to overcome this challenge.
It's different from when you look at it as a problem.
So when it comes to environment, for example, where you're placed, okay, you don't have the best.
You don't have everything that you need.
You don't have the state of the art kind of stuff.
But what do you have?
What can you do with it?
Can you be creative with it?
You understand?
Because the people that we see who have achieved, none of them started with state of the art or started with the very best.
They all started from somewhere.
But because we see them now as, you know, the epitome of society, we think, oh, maybe at some point they didn't go through the same challenges.
Everyone went through almost the same thing.
It was just how you decided to look at it.
And then Raymond mentioned something very interesting, who you listen to, you know, what you surround yourself with, what you feed yourself with.
You know, I love reading books a lot.
And I learned a long time ago that it was the fastest way for me to gather a lot of information and knowledge and build my intelligence, you know, and stuff like that.
So that even when something presents itself, my mind is not so myopic in terms of how far I can see options and opportunities.
You know, I can see a whole array of ways to approach it.
Why?
Because I fed my mind something.
You know, I taught myself something either through reading or listening to other people or sitting under someone, you know.
Okay.
Well, in line with that, because I asked, did you?
So what you studied?
What I studied?
So I studied business administration.
But as you know, I wanted to study animation, but I wasn't able to study animation due to financial constraints.
Yeah.
And for a while there at the moment in time, it actually hurt me.
And when I started out my course, I was bitter about it.
I was like, but this is not what I want to do.
And, you know, but you know, we had conversations Raymond while he was in Malaysia and you know, we're talking on Facebook chat.
What was it at the time?
Messenger.
Messenger is today.
It was like Facebook chat.
So we're chatting and, you know, you know, because we, you know, the plan was to set up the company anyway.
And today, in many ways, what I studied, you know, it gave me new purpose in terms of what I was studying.
Like, so it was good to know that we're going to set up the company.
And I was like, you know, we do need somebody who understands the ongoings of how the business is going.
And so it changed my outlook on the course.
And I actually started really doing well because I was, the course became super easy for me because while I'm in class and I'm listening,
all I'm doing is thinking of how I would apply it in this scenario.
So when I'm going for exams, I'm just like, man, this is what I would do.
And so you pass, you know.
We're going to go into the details about the company.
I mean, it's, you know, what you studied is what you're.
Yeah.
So for me, I was first studying computer science, then I got the opportunity to do animation and visual effects in Malaysia.
So in many ways, what I am, what I did study is what I'm doing right now.
And my perspective is like, I feel like I'm incredibly fortunate that I got that opportunity to do it.
But the thing is what people don't know is that when I went there, I couldn't draw.
I couldn't do a lot of things.
But what I went in with was a love for writing and an incredible amount of intention.
So me and Robin, the Robin and I were corresponding throughout my whole tenure in Malaysia.
And you know, the reason I brought up this question is because it's because we grew up in the same household.
But generally a household is not much different from many, maybe Ugandan households.
Parents tend to have a vision for their children.
Yeah.
Okay.
And they'll tell you, do this course.
You want to be a lawyer, no?
Lawyers make money.
In my part, that is an economist.
So I ended up going into economics.
Everybody was an economist.
The first few guys like in the household, all of them were just supposed to be economists.
I think we need to point out that Daniel is the first born.
And then there's Ronald.
He's the second born who is not here.
Then there's Raymond.
Then there's me.
So you see Daniel Goz is like an economist.
A runout.
Runout for economists as well.
So if that had his way, I think all of us would have been economists.
What's interesting is how comfortable they've become with the outcome now.
I have to give them a lot of credit for that.
Because there are a lot of parents that would even up to now still be fighting.
And I know dad had lingered for a while.
But I think he has settled in and said, you know what?
It's okay that Daniel is like this.
And I give them credit because a lot of parents don't.
I remember he said, you want to make cartoons?
And it was very hard for him to imagine how someone can make money.
Make cartoons.
Were your parents like that?
No.
Unfortunately for me, my mom was, I was literally raised by a single mom.
So I lost my dad when I was five years old.
So I literally never knew him.
So I was raised by my mom.
And for her, it was just the whole idea of you guys need to make it in life.
It was not take this part, take that part.
It was just, just make something out of yourselves.
Understand?
Because you only have yourselves.
So whatever you do, do it with a point of you need to be successful.
And for me, that was the driving force.
Nice.
What do you guys draw the line between?
Good attitude.
Between talent and actually pushing to learn a craft.
Is talent enough?
I don't know.
This, this thing of like what, what talent, what is talent?
You know, I would be curious to hear what you guys think about that question.
So for me, for me, I think like it's a combination of the two.
There are talented people who have gone the long way.
But then there are also talented people who you see falling off because of really crazy reasons.
You can be the most talented singer in the world.
But if you don't put the work in, like, you know, nobody hears you.
You never put out a song, but you're the greatest bathroom singer.
You might have a voice better than Mariah Carey.
So what about the talent, you know?
So I feel like, you know, on our team, we have a number of talented individuals.
And I mean, oh, every day of the artists that we have and how they're working,
because they can do amazing things that I can't do and Raymond can't do.
But in the end, it's like together is how the only way that an animation can come together is by folding,
putting all those talents together and having the correct mindset.
You know, there are people who have been talented individuals and had to leave our team because of mindset.
You know, that's interesting.
I value mindset over talent.
Because the thing is that if a person puts their mind to something, they can go above talent.
They can, you know, and that's the thing.
Like, I was in school, you know, university and these are conversations I had with dad,
but you guys probably didn't know, but it was just like the mindset that he put me in,
the space that he put me in when I was going to Malaysia was like,
because I really want to go to the USA, right?
Because that's where all the movies are made, you know?
And man, it was too expensive.
And he told me like, you know, if you're really serious about it, anywhere you go, you succeed.
You know, you succeed.
And I went in with that mindset.
So when I came in, you know, you have to think about it.
I started one year in Makere doing computer science.
Then when I decided to go and do animation visual effects, I'm pretty much like older than most of the people in the class.
Because like, I've started again, you know, and all these kids are like really talented, you know?
And the thing is, I just went in with the mindset of, if I really put my mind to it, you know, I can go.
I can go above all of these guys, you know?
And I think that that's what you need.
You know, a great mindset is what you need, you know?
If you're looking for a talented person, if you do not have the right mindset, I think you can just, you can go forgotten, you know?
Maki?
I think I would say, for me, talent would be the foundation.
It's the initial deposit, basically.
It's the one thing you're going to have.
No one is going to take it away from you, you understand?
But then the question you need to ask yourself is, how far do you want to grow this?
Because then when you ask the question of how far you want to grow, it is now when all these other things that were mentioned come in.
You understand?
Because we know people who are talented, but they didn't put in the extra time.
They didn't want to sit and their mentor.
They didn't want to do apprenticeship.
You know, they didn't have discipline.
Their social intelligence was off and everything.
And at the end of the day, all of that summed up, you had talent, but you didn't go very far with it.
Then you have someone who has talent, but they understand that this is just the basic.
You ask that first, what is talent?
For me, talent would be the inherent gift that you have.
That's what I'm saying.
You have it.
No one can take it away from you.
You know, but I like what you said in terms of the mindset.
You know, anyone can ideally do anything if you set your mind to it.
Why?
Because every human being has a will and your will power is very strong.
So if you channel that energy in the right direction, you can actually do it, which is literally what you did.
Because I'm sure very many people who have seen your works, like me, I didn't know that part,
that by the time you went to Malaysia, you couldn't even draw.
But do you know how many people...
I could draw, but very badly.
Okay.
They stick figures.
Okay.
But how many people actually just stop at that point and get discouraged and feel like,
okay, I can't draw, like I'm going to go all the way the other side,
and then what if I look like a fool and all these things, and then you don't do anything about it?
You know?
Because you had something inherent, you had an intuition inside you,
something that kept pushing you like what you're saying.
When you're younger, there was always something, you always felt, I can stand out in the crowd.
If that guy can do it, I can do it.
Because for me, personally, I always felt like a bigger audience.
A bigger audience.
Like, I need to reach out to much more.
Like, I felt that the wisdom that I have can enrich and can benefit much more than the people who are just in our household
and who are around me.
So for me, it was always, how do you get out there?
How do you get the voice out there?
How do you get out there, you know?
Okay.
So we've laid a foundation for that, but now I want to focus on your company, okay?
Creatures Animation Studios.
You're going to tell us how you came up with that name.
But the question I want to ask, I've always wanted to ask,
we were a number of people who grew up in the same house.
How many people are we?
I don't remember.
There were so many.
Because mom and dad were taking care of other kids as well.
Extended family.
My question to you is, when you're starting your company, why Robin?
Why not me?
Why not Ronald?
Why him?
I think, I've never actually, good question, you know?
For me, it's just that, it's just that Robin and I did have similarities already in the household,
which happened naturally.
We were not forced, you know?
We already loved storytelling.
We watched so many animes together, you know, right?
And that's something that I was not necessarily, because you would watch like an anime episode.
I loved Bleach.
You would watch Bleach episodes alone.
Ronald would watch them alone, but me and Robin would watch them together, you know?
And I think that it just became natural.
I've never really thought about it just happened, you know?
It wasn't a planned thing.
At a certain point, it kind of did become planned.
Because especially around the time when you were going to study, when you were going to study animation,
it kind of became planned.
Because initially, we started out by having our writing sessions or whatever, storytelling sessions in the Harry Potter room.
The room that we call the Harry Potter room under the stairs.
So we used to go and exchange stories.
But there was no real point to it.
It was just for the sake of stories.
Dreaming.
Dreaming anyway.
And wouldn't it be cool if this story was wild?
Did you guys try to do comics or something like that?
I think we were writing more than comics.
Because I think I have like an unreasonable amount of notebooks that have like just chapters and paragraphs of stories.
And Robin also has that.
And I used to read some of his stuff.
He used to read some of my stuff.
And this is secret, because you guys don't know this.
The whole time that he was in Malaysia, because we had been having that session, it continued on Facebook in books.
Like I would come, even when I was at school, like I would use my computer class time to update Raymond on where my story is.
And then he would...
It was very interesting.
And you know what's interesting is that he, after Raymond had finished his course, was it after he had finished?
Robin said he wanted to do the same course.
And Ronald and I thought he's just trying to...
No.
It came from very far away.
We didn't know that there was a backstory to it.
We thought he was just trying to copy, because...
And that's an interesting thing about siblings, you know?
Like we have different relationships with each other.
And like, you know, you take it for granted.
Because Robin and I have been talking for such a long time.
It didn't occur to me that you guys didn't even know.
You know?
These guys came at me.
It wasn't even when his course was done.
It was while he was still there.
And I was...
That's one problem.
Yeah, it's really one problem.
He told...
I discouraged mom and dad.
I was like, you know, Judo could put money on this guy to do animation.
When he's just...
He has no clue what he wants to do.
So he's just looked at the next guy.
But that wasn't...
That's what we thought.
And that's the thing.
I think like it's...
It's interesting, because like Robin's story...
I keep on telling people like Robin has his own interesting story.
Because like a lot of people don't even know what we've just said.
This is probably the first time we've mentioned it.
Maybe.
You know?
And the thing is, the whole time I was in Malaysia.
It was like Robin sends us something.
I used to send him a story back.
You know, he reads it.
You know?
And the thing is, I was trying my best to make sure that he was...
He knew what was involved in an animation course.
You know?
So I'd send him stuff.
I think I even came back with a lot of my lecture slides.
Yeah.
You know?
Right?
And you read them.
I think it was shared with something.
I mean, I looked through some things, but you know, it's not the same as...
Being.
Like receiving handouts from school.
It's not the same as being in the school.
But you know, like very much so along the journey.
Like I said, because I felt like just because I didn't do animation,
didn't mean it made my storytelling journey had died.
And so I started focusing more on it.
And even up to today, I'm the only part of the Creatures Animation Team
that doesn't animate.
You know?
I'm there for story.
I'm there for line production.
I'm there for, you know, the way the business works.
You're going to tell us what line production is
before you bring in Maki.
But so how did you come up with the name Creatures?
Why Creatures?
It's actually strange because we are actively going to change that.
And I don't know if we should mention that here.
Is this...
No, not yet.
Right?
But the thing is that it takes a long time for a company to find its purpose.
Very long time.
And talking to different company owners.
I've realized that the culture of your company, the name of your company,
how that seeps into everybody who works with you.
Right?
It takes a while to really understand what that is.
You know?
And we have recently discovered what that is.
So we are changing our name.
But initially Creatures came...
It's funny.
It's like the name Creatures came up because we were thinking about individuals that think
differently back then.
You know?
And we're saying like these weird creatures.
Okay.
Like that's where that name came from.
And it's funny.
It came from...
Back then Robin wasn't even part of the company.
It started with Gabriel.
Gabriel Mugaka.
So Gabriel was...
Was your cousin.
Your cousin, Gabriel, you know?
So we started the company with...
I started the company with Gabriel before I left Malaysia.
Before I left for Malaysia.
And that was the idea.
Right?
But then along the way, I think obviously as things happen,
I think Gabriel wanted to focus more on live action, documentaries, things like that.
And I was really super focused on animation and I'd been talking to Robin.
The plan was always to have Robin part of the company.
So when I came back, it's like Creatures 2.0.
So what people usually talk to us about...
Talk to us about is actually Creatures 2.0, which is with Robin.
Right?
Starting from 2015.
And the one that was there before...
We didn't really do many projects, you know?
You know?
We did like an anonymous...
That was the only thing I think we did, you know?
But like...
Yeah.
So...
But the name came from...
So the idea is...
Funny enough, like what we're talking about.
People have the different mindset.
Who are thinking differently, you know?
So the spirit of what we want to do has always been the same.
Okay.
And now we're moving on to something else.
Okay.
Maki, you have a question?
Yeah, I have a question about that.
Because I watched one of your interviews.
Out of the several.
Where you talked about when you guys started, you started out in the garage.
I'd like you to just share that story.
Because I know the most famous garage startups that people know about...
What is that?
Apple.
Apple, exactly.
People say that...
Steve Jobs.
Was Microsoft as well in the garage?
Yes.
Most of them were in the garage.
So is it something to do with computers?
With the garage startups?
To be honest with you, it's just that the parents wanted to use the garage and I said...
We actually didn't start in the garage.
We started in the police quarters.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, in the room.
But the garage ended up in your room, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Don't say that.
Alright, let me go on.
The truth is that I spent a lot of nights in that garage, you know.
Just tried to pick it up.
Robyn, why are you laughing?
Because Robyn didn't sleep.
He slept there.
Robyn was in his bed.
I just realized that this guy has the potential to really give us the...
No, we also have the potential to...
We can make it a little bit more siblingly here, you know.
But the thing is, it wasn't like, oh, let's start in the garage because this guy is starting
the garage.
We started in the room under the stairs long time ago.
Then we shifted to the boys' quarters and then we went to the garage.
But the reason why we usually say we started off in the garage is because that's when the
team started forming.
We started inviting people to join us there to work with us.
And in line with that...
So you got a number of people to work for you guys to join the company.
You're going to tell me what criteria did you use to choose those people?
And in line with that, does your company have a culture?
And how was that culture determined?
I don't know.
Do you want me to take this with you?
No, you go ahead.
Because in terms of the first people who came on, you're the one who found them.
Yeah.
And then you talk on the culture.
So for me, I came in knowing that not everyone is going to be fortunate enough to have gone
to study animation.
So I knew that what I was looking for in Uganda was not only people who had some skill, but
people who had the correct mindset, who are crazy enough to say, there's no reason why
we can't make a short film, or we can't do a film, or we can't have a successful animation
studio.
I would actually want them to be interviewed, you know, those guys.
Because I want to know what they were thinking.
Because sometimes I look back and say, I think, I know I was crazy, but I think...
Were you paying them?
At that time, you weren't paying them.
No.
So the thing is this, most of them, we were not paying them in the beginning.
No, no, the noodles came later, Robin.
I was going to get there, right?
In the beginning, it was just, I think we were looking at it, and I think their parents
as well, were looking at it as an opportunity to use some of the skills they had, right?
And this was more of like a training thing.
I think they were looking at it that way.
But then the intent was always to create a company that actually produces something
and we can't pay them, you know?
So I was under that pressure, always to figure out how do I pay.
And actually, in the beginning, if someone told me, like, oh, I don't have transportation
stuff like that, I was actually putting some money that I had saved up to just help, you
know?
And then the noodles came in, the plastic plates.
Remember those plastic plates?
What's this noodles thing?
What's that?
We're basically paying guys with noodles.
I feel pretty lunch.
Okay, here's the thing.
We're not paying them.
Let's first rephrase this.
No, because I'm not paying them.
So guys used to come and they used to just work.
Then we started saying, you know what?
Guys are working the whole day.
Let's start giving them lunch, but we couldn't afford anything.
But those noodle packs, bro, they taste good, you know?
And there was a sale at the supermarket.
I don't know if you remember that.
Don't say this.
It's way back, man.
I just remember there's a particular guy who just used to like eating it a lot.
I don't know.
We're not going to name him.
What did he look like?
A light-skinned guy.
Okay, so that's going to work.
Okay.
And the culture?
Because I'm going to bring in Maki again.
So initially, now, it's actually very interesting because when we, in 2015, when the company had
started, I was reading up a lot about companies and how they are.
And then there's company culture.
And I was like, oh, company culture is going to be this and that.
But then you start to realize very quickly that you can't control what it is.
It's controlled.
The culture comes.
It just appears with the people that are on the team and things start to happen.
Including ourselves.
Including ourselves, you know?
So in our company, but what aspect of culture?
Because I feel like it's broad.
I can talk about the fact that, you know, on Fridays, we have team talks.
And now that's part of our culture.
I would say like, just the company culture right now is we are very aware of our position.
We're very aware of the environment that's surrounding us.
But we're not letting that stop us, you know?
So right now, everyone works with this idea that let's prove some things can be done.
You know?
Very much so, like, when you look, if you're to come to the Creatures Animation Studio
right now, the energy in the room is, guys just want to work, man.
Guys are there working more hours than we ask them to.
Guys are there on weekends, happily smiling.
Like, they just want to push and get better.
And the idea is we're failing fast, you know?
And forward.
So, especially this year in particular, we started having this attitude of,
let's get all the nonsense out of the way.
You know, I'm happy at work when we discover something wrong.
Because it's now we have discovered it and it must never happen again.
And it's gone.
It's interesting.
Like, when you take a step back, like us, take a step back
and actually look at the team and how they're functioning,
you're like, I don't even know when this started happening, you know?
But like, yeah, Robin talks about this year,
but in a way it was kind of always there, you know?
And it does come from, I think the founders first, right?
Which is, Robin is five years my younger.
But Robin's opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's opinion, right?
And if someone in the studio is trying to minimize someone else's opinion, right?
I just have a tendency of saying, we don't do that here, you know?
Right?
So, I listen to people, like my job is to make decisions, right?
But then I make informed decisions.
So, a lot of times I have to go and talk to Robin, right?
And I encourage talking.
I encourage, I think the other thing that we have in our company is that
everyone talks to everybody and we don't advise information.
I actually get very frustrated when someone is sitting on information
that could have solved our problem.
And I'm like, why didn't you talk about this?
So, you're very family-oriented, you think?
Family-oriented?
I don't know, it's funny because the thing is this,
I don't want to force people to have those things.
Let's go for a company retreat, you know?
Like that, you know, those ones that are fake, you know, right?
I want, usually it's even the team that tells me,
yo, Raymond, we have started doing this thing where we have quotes
every single week, right?
And I'm like, what's this quote thing?
I don't even know, but they're the ones who kind of organize that, you know?
They say, yo, man, we should go and do a food stall,
which we still have to do.
But the food stall thing where we compete,
and it comes from them, you know?
And I think that that's what Robin's saying, like the people generally.
So, I don't know if it's like family, because somebody goes and does his own thing
and I have no idea what is going on in his free time.
But I don't force everyone to.
I like that. I like that.
So, basically what I'm picking up from you guys is having a spirit
and an environment where iron sharpens iron, you understand?
Like where you have the right people around you.
You didn't even know at first that you had these kind of people around you,
but as time goes on, you start to discover,
actually you don't need to push these guys to do it.
Like it's coming from within, like everybody feels a part of this thing.
They're all sold to your vision, you understand?
And that's the power of vision.
That's actually the power of knowing exactly.
And this is why I believe when we're looking out for guests,
Rabbi suggested you guys, because these are the things that you see with people
who are operating from a place of mastery.
That there are certain things that they have done
that even without them doing much, it will draw the right people around them.
And it creates an enabling environment.
Now, I just wanted to add a block to that, which is also just a question.
How did you guys, or how are you dealing with, it can be past and present,
how did you deal with public pressure in terms of expectations?
You understand?
Because you're saying you're not paying these guys and stuff like that.
So, to be sold to this vision that you had,
even when it wasn't yet making the money
and the environment was not the most conducive,
how did you deal with all of that?
I think the way I'm going to answer these questions
is that I'm going to say that in many ways we're always ahead of the public.
And when we were dreaming up a Kalabanda at my homework,
no one was thinking about it.
So by the time Kalabanda at my homework comes out,
we've lived with it for like two years.
So we are putting ourselves on pressure, right?
Then the public starts putting us on pressure after Kalabanda has come out,
but we're on pressure about something else now.
Very much intentionally, actually from the beginning,
before Kalabanda at my homework, before we released it,
we had a conversation about the fact that we had to know what we were going to do next
before the audience saw it because there was going to be public pressure.
Actually, that's a good thing to add.
I have a question in line with that,
because now we're talking about the content that you brought out.
Creatures has won a number of awards because of your very first release,
which was a Kalabanda at my homework.
And if you haven't watched it, please take time to watch it.
It's about eight minutes long?
Six.
Six minutes.
And how long did it take to make it?
I like to answer this question with it.
It took two years to make a Kalabanda at my homework,
but it also took two years to form a team.
That's why I will never go into animation.
What?
Two years for eight, for six minutes.
No, Daniel, the thing is, think about it this way.
If you, you know, it's incredible self-awareness.
You understand that we are an industry in its infancy.
I recognize that, you know?
And it is difficult to be a pioneer.
That's why many people don't do it.
There's going to be a point in time where animation is going to be so easy for people.
It's going to be normal, you know?
I mean, like, not easy in terms of to do, but so many people are doing it, you know?
That they're going to look back and say,
we took six minutes, two years, six minutes.
But this year, we've done how many minutes?
And the year hasn't even ended.
We're almost on episode nine, eight, nine.
We're doing a show called Kunda and Friends,
which is on YouTube.
I saw something like that in the show.
And we're pushing out like an episode a month.
So it's Africa's Coco Melon.
Yeah, like that.
We say it is, I think it's time that from a very young age,
what appealed to me to do this project was like,
if we want to really impact, you know, our people, you know,
our people who look like us all over the world,
I think it needs to start from a really young age,
because if like a kid is consuming different kind of content, you know,
and not seeing themselves, there's going to be an age where they reach
and they cannot, like...
It's not relatable.
Yeah, and you're trying to, now you start trying to remove all those,
all that trauma, I wouldn't call it trauma, rather.
It's like what, like the influence they've had ever since they were young.
I like Kunda and Friends because when I see like your daughter,
we see Jasmine, our niece, right?
Dancing and singing to Kunda and Friends.
She doesn't know how lucky she is that she gets to see black kids, right?
Yeah, we grew up every cartoon as well.
I remember a time, I don't know if you remember this when I came to you
and I asked you to do an animation for my ministry.
Yeah.
And I now think at how silly I was because you don't remember the answer you gave me.
You remind me.
Every second in animation counts, okay?
So you asked me, how long do you want?
I was like, what, 20 minutes?
20 minutes!
Now, by the way, guys, you have to understand that this was before
Kala Bandit, my homework had come out.
Yes.
So, man, bless his heart, right?
Bless his heart and his soul, right?
And I think I answered it like very...
I didn't shout, I didn't say whatever, I just told him,
20 minutes, you know?
And Kala Bandit, my homework is six minutes.
But you have won awards.
Can you just mention the awards that you've won?
The most notable is the Cannes.
Yeah, so with the short film corner Cannes Film Festival,
I always get the year wrong, Robin, correct?
2018.
Yes, 2018.
He told me Raymond, you should stop saying the wrong year.
You keep saying the wrong year.
So 2018, the Cannes Film Festival, which is the largest film festival in the world.
And that was really cool.
I got to go there with Robin.
It was really nice.
We got a cool John Travolta photo there.
It's its own other story, you know?
But, yeah, so we've won that.
We won a Frith in Nigeria.
I think we've won in total, like, maybe seven.
Nice.
Just for Kala Bandit.
Yeah, just for Kala Bandit.
And it has been global.
It hasn't been just Africa, ironically,
within the Uganda award until last year.
Can you imagine?
Okay, last year.
Okay, but can I...
In line with that, okay.
So you have won awards for Kala Bandit, my homework.
It took two years.
It was in the garage.
I witnessed you guys working in that place.
Sometimes Raymond was sleepless the entire night.
But if you could go back,
are there things about Kala Bandit that you would change
in terms of how it appears now?
I think like, okay, so here's the thing.
Whenever a project is done,
like at least in the case of our studio,
I always try to name what we want its objective to be,
early on, you know?
I go in with that mindset.
So I think Kala Bandit did exactly what it needed to do, right?
But what I would have changed is that we would have done it earlier.
That's the only thing I would have changed.
Because the whole of 2015,
we were trying to be a studio that we were not, you know?
We were trying to do commercials, ads, graphic design, posters,
and all this.
And there are a lot of people in that area.
Yes.
And I remember talking to Robin and saying,
like, I don't know if I said this directly to him,
but my mindset was this.
I need a project that will help us leapfrog everybody.
Everybody.
In one single bound, you just leapfrog everyone, right?
And I said, I remember the parameters for doing Kala Bandit
at my home, it cannot be shorter than a minute.
That's a clip.
It cannot.
It cannot be something people pass around on WhatsApp at that time.
Because that's how people are associating animation.
We wanted to create something.
A film.
That somebody would say, I would watch that in the cinema.
And so what we're trying to do is that we're trying to get our audience
and get several audiences used to watching our things in a place
that can generate an industry like their income and all that stuff.
Because people are so used to watching Avengers in the cinema,
but they're used to watching a Ugandan clip on WhatsApp, you know?
But if there's something this large, this scale,
they're like, wow, I would watch that in the cinema and that's great.
So I think we would have done it earlier.
Robin was good.
To answer the same question about whether I would change anything
for the content itself, the film itself, I wouldn't change anything.
Every time that it plays today, Raymond and I,
I know we can't watch it.
Not in a place of shame.
I understand that anyone was done.
Their work doesn't.
If it's playing in a room that you've been invited,
I usually have to walk out.
But I love what it did.
It served its purpose, like Raymond said.
It was a stepping stone.
It is what it is.
It's a moment in time that I appreciate.
I appreciate it for what it is.
Yeah.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, I love this story, by the way.
I love this story.
It's very inspiring, listening to your story,
because I know I'm going to share it with a lot of people as well.
And just from what you guys are sharing based on the question that I asked,
what I picked out was the sacrifices you guys have had to make.
You understand?
To be able to be in that place of mastery.
And that's where you zoned down and said,
you know what?
All these other work, you know,
printing these, designing these and doing that and doing that,
let's push all of that aside and just focus on this one thing.
Even when these other smalling or seemingly small things,
we're bringing in instant gratification, correct?
But you chose to focus on this one thing,
that even if it's going to take us two years to do it,
we're going to put all in it,
that at the end of the day when it comes out,
it's something that we'll be proud of.
So it first started with you guys.
You sold yourself.
You sold your visions to yourselves.
You bought into it.
And then you understood that sacrifices are going to have to be met.
So I just want you guys to talk about that because
part of the reason, the main reason of actually this podcast
is just to help someone out there
who is having a challenge with understanding
what we mean by attaining mastery in your craft
and what it would take for you to be able to attain mastery
and the things that come with it.
Because you know, someone can sit now, look at you guys and say,
oh, I think that's nice.
Then tomorrow they're going to start.
And then they'll feel hungry and say, you know what?
I think this is not paying off, man.
I've been at this thing for four months, six months.
No one is giving me any likes on Facebook, on my Instagram.
No following.
I have five people.
You understand?
You brought in actually something very interesting
because what he's asking is,
tell us about your sacrifices.
But in line with that, I know a story or two.
Some of the challenges that you've had,
I want us to touch that then we'll go into
what he was talking about at the end.
There are people who have come in to try to buy your company.
We won't mention them.
We won't mention them, yes.
They've come and they've offered you some hefty amount of money.
Why not take it?
Because my simple answer is, it's kind of,
okay, here's the thing.
Something that I've learned recently, right,
is that money is very important.
I know money is important, I've always known that.
But what's even more important than that
is the people you work with.
So if you get the wrong investor, you know,
even if they come in with a lot of money,
very quickly your company is going to start breaking, you know.
And I think why we want taking some of these deals
wasn't because we didn't need money.
It was mostly because that person
just wasn't the right person for us.
And it could be the right person for someone else,
but just not for us, you know.
So we've gotten the really bad ones, right?
We've gotten the ones that are very enticing.
But then you're like, hmm, I think we know what,
we're still on a journey.
And we're talking about big money here, right?
Because like imagine, you know,
we've just talked about the fact that
the first year was the company that we were not,
we were focused, we're trying to focus on ads and commercials.
First forward after Calabanda ate my homework,
somebody comes and offers you,
man, I want to invest in you guys.
Do you know I can get you all these commercials,
all these ads.
I have connections to all of the big companies.
And that's not your vision.
And that's what the problem is.
Yeah, and you should always ask investors
like what their vision is, you know.
Sometimes they come in saying,
like you pitched to me because you want money,
man, like you pitched to me
because are you the right person for me?
You know, and that's just the attitude.
And you have to be really, really strong
because sometimes these people come in,
when those noodles have come back, right?
And you're like, bro, man, I don't know, right?
But in line, because that's a sacrifice,
those are sacrifices you've had to make.
But there's something you said,
because I want to touch a number of things,
I think people will help a number of people.
What does it take to get into Disney,
to work for Disney?
Because you specifically,
okay, so you've been working with Disney
on your project, Chizazi Moto,
which means generation of fire.
So a group of Africans came together.
I'll explain.
Okay.
Now, just for so many animators out there
who want to go to the big league,
what does it take?
The big league for now.
Yes.
What does it take to work for Disney?
Because I remember, sorry,
I remember when you released a color band
that hit my homework,
it had just a handful of subscribers, okay?
How on earth did you get in touch with Disney
or did Disney get in touch with you?
And what was the next step?
I want to summarize this story, right?
I know I'm trying to help somebody,
but I want to summarize the story
because we don't have a lot of time.
What I will say is that I attribute
everything that has happened to a color band
hit my homework.
The decision to do that film
is the single best decision I think I've ever made.
I thought you were going to say
you had to do it through God,
but then let's get to that.
Okay, go ahead.
We had gone so far without doing Disney.
We were doing so well, you know?
So anyway, so a color band hit my homework.
And the thing is that when I was on the award circuit,
Robin didn't travel as much as I did,
but then I did travel around.
And I think just talking, having conversations with people,
it eventually led me to go to Cape Town.
I was invited as a speaker
at the Cape Town International Film Festival in 2019.
And I met all these big players, you know?
Disney people there, Sony Pictures, DreamWorks.
I met Peter Ramsey there.
I met the Triggerfish team there.
And that's what we're like,
the deals of Kisazimoto was signed.
You know, they're like,
you signed this deal, it wasn't that.
It's like, I just talked to people.
I told them what I'm trying to do.
And I was just really networking, you know?
And there are rumors about trying to do something for Africa,
you know?
And I was like, I don't know if they're going to call me,
you know?
But I said, if these people can remember me,
if they can check out Color Bandit, my homework,
they'll probably remember me at some point.
So when they, so emails came out
and they said Raymond, we're inviting you to pitch.
This is what people need to understand, you know?
You need to pitch.
I pitched, you know?
So I was invited and I found out later that,
they just told us recently that it was 73 people.
We didn't know how many people they invited.
So they narrowed it down to 10?
To 10 films, 10 projects and 14 directors.
14 directors.
So some films have two.
So I pitched, I pitched, I pitched to the Disney execs
during COVID and all that stuff.
And eventually I was chosen among the 10 films.
So I'm writing and directing.
The first episode, Heard a Boy,
Kisazimoto representing Uganda.
Available on Disney Plus now.
Available on Disney Plus.
That is, your stories is fantastic
because many people, and Mark is going to come in,
many people would want to be where you are.
You see, we live in a society now
that is very social media oriented.
People are interested in how many likes,
how many views and all those have their place.
But what you've shown me is that
when you use your option moment,
you call it a kairos moment,
use it your option moment.
It doesn't matter how many people
are subscribing to your page and so on and so forth.
You just need the attention of the people that matter.
Just make sure you're remembered, I feel.
We remember, being memorable.
Yeah, if we had time,
we would go into that canned story of John Travolta.
Because even us getting that photo
was also a testimony of just being remembered.
That's it.
Hopefully we'll get that photo and show it.
So my Instagram is on his Instagram as well.
But it's funny, that's very interesting.
No, actually, the reason why it has to be shown as a big deal
is because people might think that
we're in a room of like 150 people,
but we're the only ones who got a picture with him.
The guys from Uganda.
How did that happen?
And were you memorable?
Yes, of course.
Okay.
Let's just summarize this story.
Because this story is,
we were having a bad time at Cannes.
We had just got in our film Cannes.
We traveled all the way there.
I remember the first days, the first two days, right?
Robin and I were going back to our Airbnb and saying,
oh my God, nothing happened.
We had a networked with anybody.
It's overwhelming.
Everyone at Cannes is trying to get their thing pitched.
Trying to get noticed, you know?
And like there are very few people that we're all aiming for.
Right?
So what we did is that like during the,
we got into one of those master classes during Cannes
and it was John Travolta there.
And the thing was almost ending.
People were asking questions.
Then I turned to Robin and said,
I'm going to ask this guy a question.
Because he kept looking at us.
Right?
He kept looking at us, right?
Because we were the only black people in the room
wearing these African shirts.
And then I was like, and I noticed it.
I was like, you know, if I put up my hand,
this guy is going to pick me.
You know?
Absolutely.
So it's because he was with the moderator.
And the moderator chose the last question.
Yes.
And it was somebody else.
Yeah.
And John Travolta was like,
I want to know what those guys are saying.
Because I put up my hand and he saw me putting up my hand.
The moderator said that was the last question.
And so when I stood up, you know, man, I stood up
and I said, I'm here with my brother.
I took color band aid, my homework, Uganda and all that stuff.
And I asked my question was like,
what does it take for someone like me to get you John Travolta?
I'm from Uganda in one of my films.
It's a very audacious.
Wow.
Okay.
Was that the question?
That was the question.
I like that.
Even you are shocked.
No.
That was the question.
The question that you asked was,
what does it take to be seated where you are?
Oh yeah.
That was the question.
Then I added this other part.
Yes, it was after.
So like it's a very audacious question to ask in a room
of 150 people, 200 people actually.
And so what happened was that when I sat down,
I told Robin,
now everybody in this room knows who we are.
And Robin was like,
in one fell swoop, 200 people.
You know, I think,
I think the thing is,
and it's hard to describe it because like when we stood up
and you know, it's asking a question, you know,
like I should point out how the other questions are going.
It's like, yes, ma'am, do you have a question?
Yes.
Mr. John Travolta.
That's not how they speak.
You can do a normal.
Mr. John Travolta.
I see that you've done so many films.
And then people.
But when we stood up, the energy was different.
Was like,
Different vibes.
Yeah, like we're not here.
We want to be where you are.
You know, how do we get there?
And so the thing is that after that,
what was his answer?
I'm curious.
I remember he said like,
just if you send something, why not?
You know, like if we look at it
and it's a project that's meant for me,
you know, why not take it?
And that also comes back to,
he's as much as we'll come back to that later.
And his answer to,
to your question about being in his seat,
he said, he said,
because for me, these words really wrong with me.
He said, you know,
if you just keep going, I mean,
look around in a single moment.
You've made these people start laughing and stuff.
You've captured the room.
If you just keep going, you'll be in my seat.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
And it's something that I really look at.
The truth is that when we had this story,
when we left,
when we left that place,
the rest of the festival
were recognized everywhere we're going.
We're just walking around.
The abandoned brothers.
Hey, there you go.
Then we got a lot of contacts.
So how did you get a picture with him?
So that's the thing.
Like, so now that's very funny.
Cause like, it's, it's funny.
Cause like I said, let's go.
Right.
So everyone was trying to take a picture of them.
We had selfies and stuff.
So like we went over there.
I hope I'm not giving people like a method of doing this.
There are like bouncers around him and stuff.
So no one could reach him.
Yeah.
So, so I'll tell,
tell the truncated story of this.
So we went, we took,
cause no one was taking a picture with the moderator.
And I said, Joe, man,
you're on stage with John Travolta.
I want to take a picture with you too, man.
So we took a picture of the moderator.
And the moderator was like,
I'll get your picture of John Travolta.
You know?
All right.
And I was like, cool.
Right.
So we, we,
he told us to just wait out there.
And this is the best part of this story.
Cause when the moderator came out,
he waited for John Travolta to come out with his bouncers
who were just pushing people away from him.
And then the guy,
the moderator points at us like this.
And he's like,
John Travolta says,
and I kid you not verbatim,
my Ugandan brothers.
I gotta take a picture with my Ugandan brothers.
And I was like,
then we took the picture.
And the thing is like,
after that,
the lesson was to Robin and I is that wherever you go,
right?
You have to seize that opportunity.
Immemorable.
Seize that opportunity.
Because, you know, he, he, he went like,
hello, my name is Raymond Malinga.
And I'm from Uganda.
I'm here with my brother.
Brother stands up and he waves.
If it was like, you know,
like,
like it was very, very intentional.
And I said, Joe,
we can't come all the way to camp
and not get anything out of this, you know?
So that, that's just a sidetrack story.
Sorry.
Okay.
That's very...
Maki, you have something to add?
No, I love that.
I love that.
I live for moments like that.
You understand?
I live for moments like that.
And the reason I say that is because
on many occasions,
the people I've met,
the people I've interacted with,
I, there's this one
thing I usually tell them.
I tell them,
you need to travel.
It doesn't matter.
Just body playing.
Exposure.
I tell you why.
Even more than exposure.
I tell you why.
Because the moment you bought a plane
and you're in a different airport,
you could just be anyone.
Nobody knows you.
You could just be anyone.
So like you're saying,
when you're there,
you, I mean,
you've come all this way.
It can't just be for nothing.
All these different people
came from somewhere as well.
But when the opportunity
and the moment presents itself,
it comes down to two questions.
Will you have the self-confidence?
Or will you be intimidated
by the environment
and the people you see around?
And for me,
that's what I'm saying.
I love this story because
that self-confidence,
it's literally what opens those doors.
Because the rest of the guys,
even the ones who probably
you might have thought,
maybe that guy,
you understand?
But they are not the ones
who got the attention that you got.
They are not the ones who left the room
with the kind of effect
and impact that you did.
But it's just because
you were looking at yourselves
focused on what brought you here,
what you guys are chasing
and stuff like that.
It's not about these other people.
It was about you guys.
So in that moment,
you knew, you know what?
It's either go big or go home.
And you're short for it.
And so if there's something
just out of that short story,
even as we come to an end of this,
if there's something
that I'd pick out of your story
and share with someone else,
it would just be that.
Have that self-confidence.
Have that drive.
Everybody on the face of this earth
has something to give.
Don't undermine what you have.
You know,
I want to focus on Chisazimoto
for a minute.
So there's a lot we could touch,
but thank God you've done
a thousand interviews.
You guys have done
a lot of interviews once.
So I've been looking for things.
I spent a lot of time
listening to your interviews
and trying to pick what
maybe people have not asked.
But this was unique
because you got to work with...
One of the voice actors
was a superstar.
And just tell us...
Oh, he's a superstar.
Florence Kasumi.
Yeah.
And you had to pitch
to her as well.
Yeah, like through my script,
because I wrote the script
and sent over the script
and if she likes it,
likes it, doesn't like it,
she liked it.
I actually wrote the role for her.
You know?
So the thing is,
I didn't think I was going to be able
to get Florence Kasumi,
but I wrote the role with her in mind
and I said,
hey guys,
maybe it would be cool
if I could get the actual Florence Kasumi
to do this thing.
And you're like,
let's try.
Cool.
I was like, what?
Wait, what?
Okay.
But it was, yeah.
So that's it.
So I like the fact that...
So Chisazimoto is now out.
It's on Disney Plus.
Yep.
You wrote the first episode,
you directed.
I wrote and directed.
Wrote and directed the first episode.
I've watched it.
What, 12 minutes long?
Yeah.
11 minutes.
What's the premise of the story?
So simply put,
it's futuristic Kato Herders.
Right?
And I think that's...
That's cool.
That's it.
Let's just...
You're the futuristic Kato Herders.
Kato Herders.
Yep.
So is there another project we should expect,
not just from you as an individual,
but from creatures animation,
that is coming out anytime soon?
Right now, I think everyone can enjoy Kunda and Friends.
That's what's going on.
They have kids.
Even if you don't have kids.
The songs are nice.
The songs are jam.
And I find myself humming those songs
more times than I care to admit.
But the thing is,
I think Kunda and Friends is what we're doing right now.
We have other projects in the pipeline,
as I mentioned before,
we usually...
Our projects have objectives, you know?
And when we are working on something,
we want it to achieve something.
So the projects that we have,
you can get excited for...
We're moving to the animated series space
and also like feature films, right?
But we're looking for the right partners
to be part of this, you know?
And to take us to the next level.
Because we can already do Akalaban in my homework.
Right.
That's what happened.
Of course, with the help of Disney,
Trigger Fish Animation Studios.
But how can we get to a point where by Uganda
can actually
self-sufficiently do these things on their own?
And that's what we're looking for.
Your company is obviously growing.
All right?
Yeah.
It's been around for how many years?
Six, yeah.
We started in 2015.
It can't be six years
because that's when I started my ministry.
So it's about eight years now.
Okay.
I think we're in our eighth year.
We're in our eighth year.
Yeah.
So at some point,
you're going to need recruitment.
Yep.
Shout out to all the people
who want to work with Raymond and Robin Malinga.
What do they need to have?
Mindsets.
Anyway.
What I would say is
we have a simple policy in our studio.
And this is what you can expect whenever you come.
You ask you,
what are you good at?
What aren't you good at?
What do you want to do?
And what don't you want to do?
And we usually use that to determine
who we're hiring
and also to determine,
because we ask those questions
because we're trying to fill a need in our studio.
So I would say
the excuses we had back then
when information and internet was bad,
you don't have those excuses now.
So we expect people to have at least done some research
and they know what they want to do.
So we come in with a little bit of skill level
but we really value mindset over a lot of things.
And because we're coming to a close
and I'm just hitting some questions.
It's okay.
But
I had to ask this question.
Spirituality and religion.
Because there is it.
We've had discussions.
We've had this discussion.
So you guys don't consider yourselves religious.
You consider yourselves spiritual.
What is spiritual to you?
And what role has it played in who you are now
and possibly even in creatures?
Robin, go ahead.
You're the most spiritual of all of us.
For me, it's been an incredible journey
because I did start out from a very...
Used to play in church.
I played guitar and all that.
I used to play in church and I was very much a religious person.
But for reasons that the story has to be shorter than that
I became more of a spiritual person than I was religious
because I feel like religious is more of a man-made thing
and spirituality is more of a spiritual thing.
So you're working on levels that are not exactly like
this man said this in the church.
This man said this in the mosque.
You feel things.
So in terms of my journey
and where our company is going
the work that we're doing
there's a sense of spirituality even when I'm writing and telling stories
and when I go to work the energy that we're working with
it's like guys, the energy that we need to be in
we need to be a bit positive.
We need to be knowing what's around us.
There are people who come
and I generally believe that people have energies
and places have energies.
Go deeper, go deeper.
Some of us have been touched.
Robin Malinger.
Raymond Malinger.
Alright, go ahead.
So people and one of the underlying factors
for people who are also recruited
might be also the energy that they bring
you can bring a negative energy into your room
and it just kills everything
and people's energies bounce off each other.
People keep on telling me I'm a very positive person
and it bounces off on other people as well
and I'm glad for that.
But in the same way I'm thinking to myself
there's a person just as powerful with their negative energy
that can send it your way and can affect me as well.
So man, spirituality.
I think Robin touched on what I wanted to touch on
which is energies and I think I did start off as a dancer
in church and I wasn't doing that
whatever you did but I was dancing
way better than what you just saw there.
What's interesting to me is that
Robin has touched on a lot so I won't have to talk too much
but what I will say is that it is important to me
that when I'm writing something
people feel something
and the feeling doesn't mean I need to make you cry
it could make you laugh
or it could be nostalgic
but you need to feel something
and so for me when I think about spirituality
what it means to me, what it means to a company
is that it's always a transfer of energy
consistently and also weeding out the bad energy
being able to admit to yourself
you know, I might have said something wrong
and I should not say that anymore
or I said that was good, do more of that
and that's just all it is for me
so yeah, if you were talking about it from a...
Of course spirituality from this sense would be
there is a higher awareness than the...
It comes from within, it's a feeling
Okay, so okay
find a few more questions and Maki
will probably wind it up
and we'll have that for the day
but what drives you guys?
because for some people it's money
okay
talking to you guys it doesn't feel like that
what's your drive?
especially your company
because you're somewhere
where many people want to be
10 years from now
how do you see your company
and how do you see yourselves?
That's a lot of questions
Robin, do you want to go first or I go first?
okay, for me
I do not want to put anyone under the delusion
that money is not important, it is important
it enables you to do things
you know
but I think recently I have kind of
gotten into impact
and
it warms my heart
yeah, of course a full bank account is great
but it actually warms my heart when you hear
like a parent
saying, you know
my child has the skill
I don't know what to do with that
and the parent is like, now I know
what direction I can take my kid in
or a kid who is finally saying
oh, this is me
I've never felt that I had
anything was made for me
specifically but this is the path I want to go
and for me it has become impact
so
in every single thing I do
I try my best to make sure
that there's a level of impact
obviously like
achieving my own personal goals
but if it can mean something
to somebody out there, that would be great
so for me what drives me is that
I just want to tell some pretty cool stories
that I think people would be like
oh, I learnt something, you today or...
and where do you see the company 10 years from now?
where do I see the company 10 years from now
so that has been
shifting, right?
but I will go back
to what we said, Robin said
early on in this podcast
we do not view ourselves as a company
that cannot be as big as any other company
out there
so in the next 10 years
we want to see
significant movement from where we are
right?
competing at a very large level
I also want
to be in a position where
instead of waiting for Disney to come here
to offer Kizazimoto
to 14
creators that our company can turn
and say we are the ones offering this opportunity
so I see
our company being very impactful
not only in the country, not only in the region
but the continent and the world as well
Robin?
the drive
or the drive?
money
the thing that drives me
I feel keeps evolving
and I think also drives the company
it keeps evolving with time because new information
is added to the
to the cart
because I can't speak any other word
basket
easy
dot com
but
especially at the point that we are now
we are at now
I feel like
a window and a door
has been opened for us to
actually do something really
good for the people
of this country and Africa
and black people everywhere
because
you look at it
with Kizazimoto
a lot of eyeballs fall on us
from across the world
and we have the opportunity to help so many people
you have set the standard
and the thing is that
right now there is an opportunity
for more stories to be told
you know more
if
with the impact that this
Kizazimoto project is having
it means that
there is going to be a hunger
we did know there was a hunger
for such content out there
but now
the fact that it exists
I'm like
we look at the position Creatures is in
we can get more artists on
I don't know we hope
and animation is, Raymond keeps saying
there is a medium that helps so many artists
it helps
guys who draw, guys who write
needs everybody
in a way you also need musicians
you need voice actors, you need what
so the thing is that we are in a position
that we will be able to
take a number of people with us
and I look at it so that drives me
I'm like if we do it right and we do it well
we can help and impact
so many people speaking about impact
we can actually make
in the industry
an industry that in its infancy
we can actually move it forward
and I'm excited to see that happen
Maki?
I'll just say this and if you could just answer
it in less than two minutes so that it can wrap up
that would be amazing
it's the final one
based on what you've just said, what you guys have shared
if someone else was watching you
or someone who aspires to be like you guys
someone would easily think you guys
are at the top
and we know in Uganda
we have a very poor mindset
of arrivedism
I just wanted you to touch that
in terms of mentors
did you have mentors
and moving forward
even with the level where you've reached
do you think you still need mentors?
That's a quick one
I have not had
a mentor as yet
I am actively looking for one
because to get to another level
so
what I use as my mentorship
is just gathering as much information
as I can from people who know more about me
it might be Raymond, it might be somebody
their friends that I speak to
who own their own companies
who are much ahead of the game
so in a way they are mentors
but just gathering as much information
as you can
I will mention this simply because I feel like it's important
it takes humility
to be able to listen
accept and learn from somebody
and it's also part of the culture
that's in our studio right now
awesome
that's good and it also takes a lot of arrogance
to believe that you can do something
like this in this country
and together we call it audacity
so basically
it takes a lot of audacity to
think the way we think
and that's the culture of the studio
I would say I have mentors
and the way I operate with my mentors
is that I don't even talk to them that much
because one session with them
nourishes me for probably
three years or two years
but my job
whenever I'm working
is to simply make sure that
the next time I talk to one of my mentors
I'm in a different position than I was before
that's all I try to do
and
I arrive with him, we don't have that in the studio
because we always think about
growing and what we're going to do next
before you guys even see what we have
so we don't have that
and what I will say is that
the model that we're building in the studio
is I came back with all this knowledge from Malaysia
we had some skilled people
we organized it into a company
I started saying you're better than me at drawing
you do the drawing
you're better than me at this, you do it
so the culture we have is that we have
mentors, a mentor trains
people and I'm expecting
the next batch to be my people
to train those people
and that's what we're doing
I'd like to thank you guys because
you're the very definition of people who have seen
perfect your skill
on the time you were young
up to now
and I will tell everyone
who has been listening
take time to watch
Akalabanda Eat My Homework
watch Chizazi Moto
episode one is
Header Boy representing Uganda
make sure you watch that
and we'll be looking for any further links
because they're on YouTube
Kunda and Friends
we'll be looking for any other projects
that you might have
and visit your website
what's your website?
Creatures.Africa
you said you're going to change your name
so we'll look out for that as well
but thank you so much for coming
I know there's a lot of things that we couldn't discuss
what's funny about this stuff is that
this is a typical day
in the Malinga household
we're just now being recorded
that's all that's changed
when run out comes
if we ever do a podcast in the house
just say how it is
because we just talk to each other like this all the time
and these guys are very knowledgeable
Michael Host, Afimani McLean
ladies and gentlemen see you next time