Hello, everybody, and welcome to the RDM podcast.
It's yours truly, Rabbi Daniel Malinga.
Is there life after death?
What is a near-death experience?
What do people see on the other side?
To discuss this interesting topic,
I'm not alone in the studio.
I've invited some guests.
I'm going to introduce on my left, my co-host,
Afim Manny, Manny Baggs,
Mclean, Afim Manny, you're welcome.
Thank you, sir. Good to be here.
On the far left, Josephine, Mrs. Josephine Bani,
our team,
an insurance expert, you're welcome, Bani.
Thank you, Rabbi.
We're going to be focusing a lot on Bani
because she has an experience that she wants to share with us.
And on my right,
Dr. George Sekamang.
Thank you.
George is a minister of God as well as a doctor,
so I thought, why not bring him here?
Gentlemen and lady,
this topic is interesting because
a large percentage of the church likes
to dodge some of these things.
The people who can't explain it,
so we're going to go ahead and discuss it.
It's a good thing we have someone here
who has an experience about it.
But before we go into it,
someone might be watching us and asking a question.
What exactly is a near-death experience?
Because
what I call near-death situations,
a person could be in a car crash
and they almost died.
That's different
from a near-death experience.
So what is a near-death experience
from your opinions?
From my opinion.
I guess it's a term that people came up with
to define something.
A lot of people who have,
well I speak from medical perspective,
who have maybe been declared dead,
they later probably,
after resuscitation or something like that,
come back and then they tend to narrate
a series of events, places they have been to
and stuff like that.
So it's sort of a near-death experience.
Do you have anything different from that?
I think it's the same.
People who have died and come back
in a short time.
Like it didn't take too long before they came back.
Apart from a chief experience person,
do the rest of you guys have
ever had a near-death experience?
I have never.
Though maybe what I can add on,
it's also been seen in people who have
been in coma for so long.
Generally, something like that.
Okay, Bani.
Do you have any definition that we might not have?
Yeah, I think
for me, a near-death experience
when you actually
go ascend and meet the father
and he says, no, back to earth
you still have some work to do
and come back.
So physically,
you may not be pronounced dead,
but spiritually,
your spirit has left the earth
and gone to be with the father
and for me, that's what I think.
And would like to point out
that you're pointing to someone's
near-death experiences where someone goes to see the father
and everyone goes to see the father.
I was about to ask about the same thing.
Some people are just surrounded by pure darkness
and they don't
have good experiences.
Some people have beautiful experiences,
others have negative experiences.
And the interesting thing is
that it cuts across religions,
age, gender.
It doesn't seem to be
situated within a particular group of people.
It is possible for someone to be secular
and have
heavenly experience.
So it's possible for someone to be born again
and have a very demonic experience.
I agree.
So as we go deep into it,
because I'm very interested, I've heard your story, Bani.
The people watching haven't heard it
and the gentlemen with me here haven't heard it.
But I'm going to ask you
to start from the beginning
and we're going to interject as we can
to make that conversation as rich as possible.
But please go ahead.
All right.
I'll start with my relationship with God.
I believe I have a very strong
relationship with God.
And I think
my experience will play into
the kind of relationship I've had
with God over the time.
I
got pregnant
in 2020.
But I was due in 2021,
July 23rd.
And I had quite a beautiful
pregnancy experience.
Anything.
Everyone wondered how.
I didn't have the nausea.
I didn't have, not to brag,
but just saying, I didn't have
that terrible experience
like everyone had told me I would have.
And I attested it to the fact that
I mean, I prayed for this child.
I was very intentional.
I had a good diet.
No problems whatsoever.
If I did have issues,
it was no more medical issues here and there
and I was accountable.
And
on the 23rd of July,
I checked myself in
for my normal
last antenatal checkup.
And I was not yet
in labor, I say.
So I was left to
go through the process.
And in that moment
when the labor actually
started, I can tell you
I threw every bit of Christianity
out that door.
The things that you are saying?
I was like, no, no, this is a lie.
The pain was over.
Oh my goodness. I was like, wait,
what kind of God allows
for a woman? I know Eve did some
bad things, but I was like, no.
No, no, no, no.
This is too much. So I went through
pretty intense labor,
labor pains, and fortunately
I was surrounded by family and my mother specifically
was in the labor ward
for me.
But I remember I'm a very talkative person.
I'm a very happy child. I'm a sanguine.
So I kept telling people, ah,
this labor thing, ah, these guys just exaggerate.
Me, I'll laugh my way through.
He blew bath. You know those scriptures
we quote? I was like, ah, these guys are
joking. Until
reality sank in,
when the labor started being intense
and more painful,
I realized
I couldn't do it anymore physically,
emotionally, spiritually.
I felt like I had
been bitten to the ground.
How long did that take, the labor process?
The labor process
started around 6 p.m.
And I remember the doctors told me,
you should eat something. I was like, no, I got this.
I'm going to push this baby out.
Go girl. In no minute
will be okay.
And it took
hours. It took like from
11 a.m. is when we checked in
from about midday
to 6 a.m. the next morning
I was still in that pain.
So, um,
I will not go into the detail,
but they eventually opted
to put me on a drip, I think
doctor may be.
They augmented labor. Yes.
She must have been a first time at it,
took a lot of time. Yes, that's what they told me.
They told me it's the first child to take a
while, hanging there,
but I tell you in that moment
no, I was
it's pain you can't forget
and people will tell you labor is painful,
but you guys, it's something else.
So,
they put me on that drip. I kept
hoping that maybe this will speed up
everything. I actually begged for that drip
like you guys, let's just
get this done with.
And, um,
of course the initial stages they do the scan
they make sure the baby's heartbeat is okay.
Everything was
perfect, I could say.
And the send mentors were moving.
I just was feeling
really, in that moment
I'll tell you, I pray to God and told God
if I'm going, you better tell
me now so that I don't go through this pain.
So, you felt like
something was different, you felt like? Yes.
I felt like
life was
being sucked out of me. Okay, interesting.
Yeah, yeah. And, um,
I remember when the drip
started coming through
the pain intensified. I was
I can tell you, I think I was in shock.
The pain was so much
I became numb.
It was
it was in a point that you can't even
cry. You can't
scream. Nothing is going to help.
Like, that's how bad it was.
And I remember calling on God and
telling God, if you don't
come through,
then let me go. That's
how painful that labor
was. So, a few minutes
in after the drips
they keep monitoring and checking
and checking.
The nurses realized
that something was wrong.
And I think my mom is on who really drew a lot of
attention to it. I have my skin
started to change color.
She says, I turn
purple. Okay, I don't know how.
So, if a person, doctor, if a person
turns purple. I don't, it depends
on what turns purple.
No, the face.
Okay, usually
maybe the blood
was inflowing very well. It can happen
very high density of stress and stuff
like that. Turning purple always
shows us that oxygen is not moving very well.
It's easy to see in a very light
skinned person.
Especially when babies are born.
They are very pink. We are like, okay, oxygen is
okay. But I'm imagining
by the time a dark person turns purple.
But is this something common during pregnancy?
Anything can happen in pregnancy.
Okay.
Because it seems like...
It seems like her experience was extreme.
Anything can happen.
You know what I'm speaking, I kept thinking
different people take different detestives of pain
differently. You understand.
And usually, that's what you see.
One, it's always intensified
for someone who is a first timer.
Because the body has like a sort of
memory. You understand.
If you experience something, then it knows.
When it comes back again, you can adjust.
So if it's the first time,
being a first timer is a high thing.
But I'm also beginning to think
the kind of person who...
pain is far away from you.
Pain needed. She's soft.
The moment she was speaking, I could tell it.
Having been in hospital.
People who can handle pain a lot,
who can't, so you can tell.
A lot or less to pain.
You must be the kind.
So your mother
says that your face turned purple.
Yes. And she called
for the nurses and doctors to come
and really intervene.
Now, at this point in time,
they were still monitoring the heartbeat of the baby.
And there was hope
that, you know what, she's going to deliver.
This is no more keeping us calm.
They kept telling me, hang in there.
And what
I remember the price, it is good
at least save
the baby. Because I felt like
there was a tornado
of pain running down
through my body.
Now, when the...
when they finally called the doctor to come
to intervene, one of the nurses, I noticed
and I felt that something was wrong.
Because I know I'm a very
spiritual person. I can tell
something is off. Because before the baby
kept moving really, really quick,
suddenly the movements
started to go slow.
And when they came and checked the
heartbeat, I remember the nurse didn't
say anything, but I could tell
she was panicking.
And that's when they called
the doctor to come through and
try and intervene.
The heartbeat had gone down.
And I think it's a very common...
Fetal. Fetal bradycardia.
Sign of fetal distress.
I mean, if someone is dying for babies,
the heartbeat can either go so high.
That's the first level of compensation.
Then later, it will go down.
It will go down.
So,
between the time
the doctor came through
and
the time they started telling me things,
we're going to... they start telling you,
we're going to rush you in an emergency section
to save your baby and yourself.
Right now, it's a matter of life and death. And there,
I was very determined to push this baby. I'm like,
you guys, you can't be telling me this right now. I remember
begging the doctor, like, let me complete this.
I have been tested well enough.
I think I've gone through the worst. Let's just get
this done real and... Hold on.
So, at this stage, was your face still purple?
Yes.
So, you were aware, you're conscious,
but your face is now turning purple.
And he's saying oxygen
was... Depleted.
Yeah, was depleted.
I don't remember even...
the turning purple and all that,
they told me after. But in that whole experience,
I was just like, you can't be telling
me and taking me for a C-section
after what I have gone through.
It was like a slap in the face.
Okay, go ahead.
So, when they...
Of course, they rushed the signing off and everything,
and...
I think for me,
when I was entering the theater,
it's when I
suddenly realized that, oh my god,
my life
could be gone in a blink of an eye.
For me, it was the reality
that sunk in,
because the theater was so cold.
And I know I think theaters are cold,
but the other coldness was something else.
And the fact that I'd never been there
was also something maybe
that would excuse my fear.
I remember the nurses were
very, very kind and telling me,
keep looking at your belly, look at your baby,
everything's going to be okay,
but my spirit
felt broken.
Like something... I felt like
I'm either going to come back
without my baby,
or I'm not going to come back and the baby's...
I felt like it was an issue of
one or the other.
So, you could tell that this was a dire situation?
Yes, in that moment.
All right.
So, I remember
being put on the...
being carried to the theater bed.
My god, the worst experience
of my life.
It was scary and
it was also a first-time experience.
I was trying to look around. I love details.
I'm the kind who will tell you
there was a spot on the wall on this day.
So, I was trying to
get to know the environment.
Also to tell myself consciously
that you're still alive.
Like to try and keep myself saying,
is this real life or is this a terrible dream?
So,
when I was put on the bed
and they were trying to put me to
sleep. You know, I watched too many movies also.
So, I had this
whole idea of how childbirth is
beautiful experience.
Nothing like this.
So, when they're putting me to...
It's called... I don't know...
I'm just curious. Did they put something
you or they just injected in the back?
Both.
What is a good thing or a bad thing?
Why? I asked. Usually
when we're going to do emergency
sections, we tend to just do what we call
spinal anathesia.
But when you do spinal anathesia,
it's just your lower abdomen. I mean your lower
back, the lower limbs somewhere from
L5 that becomes
sparrows. So, they can take out the child. They can't even do the
operation as you're conversing with the doctors.
But usually, because
based on the facts, she had any other things
and stuff like that. So, I kept thinking, she must
have gotten what you call genanathesia.
In anathesia, we sort of black out completely.
Okay.
So, we can say
we put the body to rest.
Yeah.
To save you from the anxiety and the fear.
Not necessarily.
Most of the times, we don't opt for that
when it comes for babies.
Now, all into the fact that the baby's heart was
whatever and stuff like that.
The scenarios, if the surgeon is not so fast,
the baby may come out not breathing
a little bit well.
Okay. So, it's a 50-50.
So, it's in very extreme cases.
My question is also, so they put something
behind it. Yeah. So, that means
that they actually
gave her what you call genanathesia. Okay.
She began breathing through the ventilator.
So, that's like what they do to someone in Coma.
Oh, wow.
That explains it. Yeah. Actually,
research has shown that many times
when they are even to put what you call an EEG
that keeps tracking brain activity.
So, I think of experiences unconscious and stuff
like that. They said during genanathesia
an EEG is usually flat.
So, at that point
is someone, and Maki will come in,
is someone
is she clinically dead?
No. At that point? The picture is
you see, now this is it. Okay.
Maybe let me first define it for you. Define it for us.
Define it for us. Define it for us.
Well, we tend to
attach life cause most of the times
if we're here and someone collapse, people
trying to check the pulse
and stuff like that.
So, most of our concept of death is
bleeding, blood has stopped moving, and stuff
like that.
But, clinical death, because I remember
I made the same mistake. I think I told you
and I just took that. Brought in a child
and stuff like that, I ran to the heart.
Check the heart, the heart was still beating a bit.
The pulse was still there. They said,
the kid is alive. They asked me, did you check the pupils?
What do the pupils do?
The pupils are connected to what we call the brain stem.
So, when they talk about clinical death,
it's basically the brain is dead,
but what do they mean by the brain is dead?
When the heart stops beating
and blood is not flowing
basically,
the first very affected organ
is the brain, because it entirely depends
on glucose
to perform it.
So, it takes very few, I think
around 37 seconds or something like that
for it to begin getting affected
because it depends entirely on glucose.
So, to begin swelling and stuff.
So, whilst blood is not going and stuff like that,
the cells in the brain
can begin what?
They sort of stop performing.
That's why when they're checking to see someone,
whether they're clinically dead,
even though you listen to the heart and it's beating,
even though you feel a bit of the pulse,
you understand it?
When you check the pupils of the eyes,
they are basically not what they're relating
because they are connected to the brain stem.
So, when someone is under anesthesia,
their heart
reduces to
some...
No, anesthesia.
It depends.
When they basically burn anesthesia, the heart will be okay.
You understand?
But the thing that affects,
because most of these anesthetic drugs
affect the brain.
They sort of put the brain
because drugs like benzodiazepine,
I mean,
benzodiazepine,
these are proper for all that.
They basically just affect the brain, you understand?
And if you look...
If you look at the concept
of where our consciousness comes from
and concept and stuff like that,
it's basically related to the brain.
That is why you see
even though someone is in coma,
you'll understand the one thing they keep checking
because we even have what we call a glascoma scale
that usually checks the verbal,
the movement,
the verbal movement,
and the speech, you understand?
But on top of that, if you're trying to see
whether someone is functioning,
are they moving?
So it's basically once the brain is put to sleep,
that's what you do.
So you realize people in coma, you understand?
The brain is not performing.
You understand?
And if the brain is not performing,
it's done that supports the heart,
it's done that supports whatever,
the breathing and stuff like that.
So once blood shuts out,
while they talk of inco-death,
blood is not going there.
That means later, the respiratory system will stop.
You understand?
Interesting.
So by the time they're putting all of this on her,
that means she's switching to the coma state.
She's okay.
But you see,
even when you look at people who have had
some of these experiences,
you realize that one thing they do,
some of them use drugs,
I don't know if you see that.
Basically their main center
is the head.
I don't know if they get the point.
But even when they're doing much of this research
medically,
near-death experiences and stuff like that,
it's basically on the head.
Because even though the heart is performing,
but the head can't perform,
you can't actually operate.
Because this one controls this and that.
That's why you realize a little bit of jumping,
either the brain or something that affects the brain
that much.
So even if the heart is still there
and stuff like that,
and the other thing why theaters are called,
when the certain temperature keeps
or is preserved, because you call temperature preserves
body organs and stuff like that,
so they tend to strike a little bit more
than that.
So most of the times when these drugs are put on you,
they will kind of affect the head.
So it will be as though
the brain activity if treated,
it will be similar to someone who's what?
Who's basically dead.
And some people even,
they'll basically be no different if you do
an Egypt someone who's dead
it's the same thing.
So at this point,
for her, she was this close to death?
Well, I didn't
think they tried to see, because you know,
it's a main thing, they know once we put someone there
so it's possible for someone to actually
experience death during an operation
when people don't know.
Because you know,
what the anesthetist, because the anesthetist
is observing the vitals, what vitals do you observe?
They look at the pressure.
They look at the BP.
But you don't find a theater
with an EEG
trying to see the brain.
I don't know, you understand.
So it's very possible for someone too.
So usually I say, I think we're having a problem
in theater when these other parameters,
blood pressure, whatever, is crashing.
Oh, when it starts crashing then you know this.
Yet again, at the end of the day,
clinical death is not defined on the heart.
I mean it's not defined on the brain.
Okay, trust me.
Bunny, we want you to,
an exposition from a doctor.
Very good one, very good one.
That has really explained a lot
for me.
Yeah, so
they first told me to count backwards
and then I was not having it.
I was angry at them for what
and I remember that very well because
I was really getting, I was losing my patience.
So they did the injection
at the back and then they asked me
to keep breathing through
something like a mask of sorts.
Okay.
Before I knew it, I knew
for a fact that I'd blocked out.
That one I knew it.
But I felt like my subconscious
was still fighting to figure out
what was going on
because I would still,
till this day, I still can
sort of when I hear a beeping sound
I would hear,
beep, beep, beep.
So I kept hearing it
even till now.
It sounded to take me back
to that experience.
And I remember before I completely
shut my eyes
I remember seeing the light so
bright.
This is the light in the room? In the hospital.
Is there that bright light?
Yes, I remember seeing it and saying
okay, this is it.
This is the day that the Lord
has decided
I'm going.
And then
I blocked out. I remember
subconsciously remembering
complete blackout.
And within
my body or spirit
I don't know I was struggling
to sort of
figure out what's going on.
I'm sort of trying to also
see is the doctor
there, are they pulling out my child?
So in that moment
I can't fully put a finger on it
or without subconscious
I don't know.
Or was it my spirit trying
to look around the room
to figure out what's
really going on.
I don't know how long
I took in theatre but they said it was like 15 minutes
for me it felt like
10 years. So hold on
at this stage
you're blacked out. Yes. And so you
feel like you can feel things around you.
Yes. And I can hear things.
Things that you cannot tell
whether you're in the body or out of the body.
Read for me that scripture. Sounds like porn huh?
Read for me that scripture.
Second Corinthians chapter 12
from verse 3 to 4.
And I knew such a man
whether in the body or out of the body
I cannot tell. God knows.
How that he was caught up
into paradise and had unspeakable words.
Which it is not lawful
for a man to utter.
Okay so Bunny hasn't yet gone to paradise
at this point. But we can say
that it's a similar experience.
So tell me about it before we
go deeper into this.
Could you hear conversations?
I could hear machines
beeping. Machines beeping
but you couldn't hear people talking. Not that I
recognize. Is there anything you saw
or it was just black?
I remember sort of
seeing
myself outside
me but not
able to recognize what I was seeing.
So you were seeing your body?
Yes. I can't
say that it was actually. I felt
like I was outside my own body.
But I didn't recognize the person
on the bed. That's very
interesting.
Of course. I mean
I'm trying to imagine an operation going on.
I have opened and stuff like that.
You have
one thing I know you have
there's always that bit of you that knows how you look.
I think I had an image.
They have opened you and then
you understand. The face is purple.
The skin color has changed.
Maybe also to just add on
something. Most of the research
is on clinical death.
Of near-death experiences in the medical
world have been basically done on people
of cardiac arrest. Actually
majority if you've read about them.
Then there are those in coma and then
many of these other ones either were
tragic accidents, trauma
and stuff like that. So clinical death
is when you're dead.
Because I don't want someone to think
the heart is still beating. The brain
is dead. But basically we
say you're dead. Back then
before medicine was advanced.
Especially when they improved the cardiac
concept of resuscitating people with heart
attack and stuff. Because at that time when the heart
stops beating, that's why they used deep
breathing letters. The blood won't go to
the brain. So for that time
if they don't do it in certain amount of seconds
at a time when they are still resuscitating.
Resuscitate you.
You understand? The brain can
die for some time.
And it will be like you
are actually dead. So technically you
died. Yes, you did.
So it's an interplay of the heart
and the brain. Yet the brain is
the final mark where we say now this person
is basically dead.
So is there
anything else you would have felt? Did you feel cold?
I mean this out of body
experience.
Now the out of body
experience, if I may put it like
that, it was sort of
the first
the first experience of blacking
out was not scary black
out of him. Oh my god, I'm in darkness.
It was a warm
comfort
of everything is going
to be okay feeling. And I
felt like maybe that was my spirit telling me
calm down. You're okay
save hands. That's what I imagine.
I also felt maybe because
God my father telling me I'm here with you
throughout this whole situation
because the last words
I said before I completely shed
my eyes were oh god
my father and I
And you blacked out? Yeah. And I remember
just saying if I can just hold
on to the little faith
that I have, I'll be okay.
And you know that tells us something because the Bible
says in the first Thessalonians
it says spirit soul
body. Okay. And she
got out of her body and the interesting thing is that
she gets out of her body but can still feel emotion.
Are you getting what I'm saying? Yeah.
So there are people who think that we're just body
but
here's a person having an out of body experience
she sees our body yes doesn't recognize it
but she has emotion meaning the soul
is also an aspect because
the soul is where the weird emotion the intellect
is. But feel free
I know this is an emotional moment for you
but we'll let you go ahead.
Yeah. So
when I remember
something still
I think I was my spirit
kept saying
since I didn't expect to be put
and I always imagine that
the baby is cut out
or removed you should hear baby cry
but all this time I'm supposed to be
unconscious
that's what I believe
but I feel like I knew
exactly what was going on in that theater
and I can't
shake off the fact that
I knew that something was
off and something was wrong
and then I kept remembering
I think towards the end
of the surgery I just
remember
beds okay my bed specifically
like being
thrown from one room to another
and it was part of the experience I had to go
through to deal with because
they kept saying it was post-traumatic
something
or maybe it was not fully
under or what it just
didn't make sense to me but I remember I felt
everything I didn't feel that cut
and one but I remember feeling
like my body was being moved
from one place to another I remember
seeing lights which I don't think
I should be
because when you're giving an aphasia
the anapheles will get a pricker
and say prick you
I think they did that
are you feeling
until we know
we have numbed all the pain
senses and stuff so practically
if you're feeling then it must have been
an extra sense
it's a supernatural thing
because even knowing that the bed was
because you take the bed out of theater
and take it to the recovery area
most people just come like how did I get here
you understand that
are you to be aware of all that
because you definitely
yeah I also believe so
because they say I didn't wake up
for a while
and usually they don't allow family
to be next to you when you're getting up
recovery area
but they let my mother there
and I remember I could hear her
calling to wake up
it's okay
it's an emotional moment
but is this something
that you've come across
is it something that you think is
as a doctor working in the field
do you hear this a lot or it's
I will
I won't say I've heard it a lot
I mean I thought I was going to have a chance
of reset I had a dead man
I mean an old man
I kept thinking a lot bringing
something like this so that
I see it firsthand and stuff like that
but definitely
when you talk to
because I've actually told you one time
I spoke to a colleague who actually
realized I remember the story
a colleague of mine who was actually a doctor
who
happened to leave his body during the theater
he was doing an operation
during an operation and he left
his body he left his body
I don't want to be there
so I will say
I guess it's like I've told you
it's common in
concepts that have
the kind of medicine that affects
much of the heart and the brain
so if you're on this other side of mine
you're doing much of medicine and stuff like that
but then I also think also
I mean you're sharing it
but I think when you talk to patients
when you begin talking to patients
I mean because even all the researchers
that have been done medically
some of them have been retrospective
to many patients I mean there was a conference
they even did conference
they had medics now doing conference
to understand this phenomenon
so in that conference one doctor
reports an experience he had
or before they actually reported it
one doctor talk about
they had a conference and stuff like that
I mean they have done a whole conference to us
in the US and stuff like that
then one doctor stands up and is like
I mean you were full to believe that and stuff like that
then in that conference a patient stands up
and says you are resuscitating me on this day
imagine
and this and this happened
this and this
why you are resuscitating me you did this and this
and this and this and it looked like as though
back then people were not coming out
to talk about these things
so when they went on to begin doing research
retrospectively for people who had
they realized that actually
they had happened in those with cardiac arrest
a number of them almost up 20%
in some countries
because we don't ask
or people think maybe I was running mad
exactly
because all the information now we have around
this has been retrospective
it is now that they realized
we are having a lot of these in coma
we are having a lot of these in people with
cardiac arrest and stuff like that
so now some places
there is such that they didn't think
never and just stuff like that that came up
with so many conclusions of what will happen
to these people and stuff like that
now we are asking every person
who was
post cardiac in that resuscitation
and all that
and they realized that in a hundred
up to twenty something
of those who are alive because
half even half up to the number
tend to die
that means almost half of the number
that survives
people having these things
just so they don't talk about it
so Maki you have any questions
no no no
I just want to go back to her experience
ok so you have got out of your body
what you are experiencing
and you just
you don't know where you are
some people have a heavenly
experience
but you seem to be in a place that is limbo
but having a heavily
experience in
in
because you are talking about emotion
did you hear any words
I'll tell you
in that moment
I got half fat
that God was with me
that's the one thing I remember that kept me going
knowing that I was not alone
I just felt like I knew for a fact
I was not alone
ok ok so is there anything else
that happened in that limbo I want us to milk it
so that we can move to the point after
now when I
was taken to the recovery room
they still told me I took a while to get
back to my conscious
I remember hearing my mom
praying and
speaking and telling me
Josephine you can make it come
come out and I was in this
I felt like I was in a dark place
or let me call it a pool
how you will be swimming trying to come back
afloat to the surface
and I remember
really really
being intentional in my
soul and spirit I think
and intentionally
waking up and the first thing
I remember screaming my mom
mommy mommy where are you
and that's when I woke up
after how long was this
you don't know
I think
I went in theater around 6
I think I woke up at midday
so how many hours was that
6 hours
so if the surgery took
around 6 am
yes
and then maybe the theater period
but I know I woke up at around
10 or 11 something
I'm trying to
some operations tend to take
longer so how much the anesthesia
stayed in your system
returning how long you
would take to wake up or even what kind of operation
an operation that was in the abdomen
they just gave you just enough to
put you under that means
in 2 hours by time
actually usually people get out of
the recovery area
they are just weak
they have not yet regained very well
that means you took quite a period
so she took longer than the usual
for her case
because you can't say longer than the usual
operations are different
so normally her case would have taken 2 hours
because if you've been
if they have done the caesarean session
for like 15 minutes
15-30 minutes they are done
closing the abdomen
I mean people don't just
have animals and stuff like that
thank you
that's comfortable
have you closed the abdomen or not
anyway so they call you closing them
they bring you out
if you've been there for like 30-15 minutes
by then you must think an hour
or 2 hours out of recovery area
and stuff like that but if you are asleep
because they tend to be weak
sleep and stuff like that but the interesting
thing is that at the time you were able to know
what was happening
pulled out from one room to another
of course people tend to find themselves that
of course I came
because one may think maybe I was carried
but actually usual
so my reason I was asking
is for her case
yes yes yes
did she stay under longer than she should have
I feel
it's not easy to judge people respond different
on a phase
sometimes it can be like
this person I mean
that person hasn't yet come
anyway by the time the mother was still trying
to call her yes so that means you stayed longer
which was probably even scared
she was alive or not
though I know by the time you leave theater
we have
assessed you very well
the heartbeat is there whatever is there
but like I told you
few whatever
go to an EEG
which attracts the brain
now she raises an interesting
point because she says when she was in that place
of limbo and the darkness and everything
she
fought on you know to try to come
back to the surface now previously
we talked about the strength of your spirit
man could this also be
the reason why some people die
let's say prematurely because their spirit
man is not strong enough
to know that you can actually do
something about this because
I'm assuming if it's someone who is not a believer
and you're in such a state
you can easily
go into a state of fear
and you're not sure what exactly is happening
you don't know whether you can fight or not
and then before you know it the longer you're taking
in that space the longer you're going
before you know it now that's it
I feel like incidences are different
there
are people who come back
because someone said you have to go back
you understand
there's nothing to do with it
your will
and yet there's also that place
where a man can survive purely
by will
you don't want to die
and you come back so I guess there's a play
no it's true
you see I've seen at least that one I've observed
in hospitals
or at least you hear in many stories
before people die they have to give up
you can tell in their mood
I mean
some of them say
let me just go
I mean
we would throw it in the bucket
but why is it that many times
it's consistent
people who are dying
they usually say
just let me go
I mean it would be
even one who has never heard it
wake up and be like let me just go
so it means there must be a connection
of whether someone has
to
I mean
I desire to be with the Lord
and also to stay in this body
meaning that there is that place where some will power
will power
okay go ahead
Bani so your mom is calling you
come back come back
yes and I come back screaming
where is my mom
and she comforts me and the doctor comes
to check on me
the first thing the doctor asked is
do you remember anything
and I'll ask him after
submitting why they ask me those
questions because
I told him I remember every single detail
you are here at this time
you took me to theater
ETC I told him about the light
the machine
and yes
they took me to my recovery room
after that
after this conversation I feel like
he was trying to see my brain
activity
yes cycle and yeah
that's what I thought now
it makes sense to me because I was like what kind of
doctor asks what do you remember
really I want my child
I want to go out of this place
so yeah
they took me to the room they hadn't yet declared
to me
that Ariella had passed on
Ariella was your daughter
Ariella means
lioness of God
just putting it out there
they hadn't told me that she had passed on
and they had
asked my immediate family and everyone
to not inform me immediately
because they were still
analyzing if I had
the capacity to really
handle the news at that time
seeing that I had just gone through
a traumatic experience
yeah so
they take me to the room but I could still
tell that something was off
because I kept asking
I think my husband was down on the biggest spot
because I kept saying
is she dark, is she beautiful
does she have a forehead, how is her hair
so but he kept
and I knew he wasn't lying to me because
I could tell
in his eyes that he was being honest
because he had given an opportunity to see her
so he was telling me the
reality of it but he was just not disclosing
to me that she had
passed on
and I could tell a sadness about him
and you know they kept telling me
you know she's still, you know COVID
they can't bring her near you
all those things
until I think
the doctor felt it was fit
for him to come and actually tell me
what had transpired
and yeah
he came and told me
what had happened
the baby was distressed
and there was an umbilical cord
around her neck
and
she hadn't made it
and
I think still
I was still dealing with the whole shock
how do I remember the pain I went through
then I had this whole
thing of I think I'm in a dream
this is not real
I was in denial
I didn't react
I didn't cry
I didn't shout
I was numb for like a second
I could not believe it
and
believe it or not I lost my speech
I couldn't utter
words I couldn't speak
and that's when the doctor
called for
a therapist
for the next day
um
yeah so
I dealt with it
I still had
shock I didn't react I was
still in a place of limbo
I was still in disbelief
saying no I can't come from
one beautiful experience
of holding my child in my
belly
feeling her move
to this cold reality
so I had
to tell you
I refused to accept that reality
for like a day or two
so
eventually when I went to sleep
I said to have nightmares
so the
the experience in the theater
started to
to replay my sleep
out here
beeping
and then out here lights
and
I was imitating there was a child
I used to play with
I said to speak like that child
like I would not say real words
like light
beep
sounds I was not I went back
to the basics of
having to learn that
this is a word I would
stammer if I wanted to say something
and I realized
maybe it was the shock in that moment
and
I turned to God
that night I remember just telling God
I can speak
things in my mind
but I can't utter them
physically I don't stammer
I am very well spoken
and I take pride in it
I'm an excellent spirit how is it
that physically I can't
actually say what I want to say
and it bothered me I remember telling the doctor
I don't stam something
is wrong with my
body like I couldn't believe it
so
that night when I went to sleep
that night when I went to sleep after that
given me the news what
I wailed I didn't cry
I wailed
and did you
did you have a specific emotion
towards
anyone you were angry with
I was angry at God
because I felt like
he wouldn't allow something like that to happen
at least to his own
I thought how
hypocritical and I did
I told him this is how I feel
I feel like you are a hypocrite
you talk about these things
in the bible of how you are
the give of life
you love your children
this is not love this is cold
hatred
and I was so angry at him
I remember if I dare say
I gave God an option
if you don't show up
and have a conversation with me
I'm done honestly
and I don't know if people have had those conversations with God
I think all of us have been
in a situation like that
but before we come to you because you are getting
into a very powerful moment
I would like to know
when you invited
because she said they brought a therapy store
a psychiatrist
what would be the conclusion
because I'm sure they would say it's post-traumatic stress
first of all I have
because you know when she began
I didn't even
because the child
so because when you kept thinking
when you kept saying that
I was waiting here the baby crying
I kept thinking
now it's just hitting me
and actually during the operation
you are actually observing
because if you are looking for that detail
then you are actually observing
it's
an actual out of body experience
it's an actual out of body
it's an actual out of body experience
because you don't know
when that is happening in theatre
I mean that was a very very very important
and you know the interesting thing
before I come back to you is that
I've had people who have experiences where
they get out of their body and they can see their form
you understand
it seems like you are watching
or trying to be very
intentional to know
but you are not aware of your
actual physical form
or who you are
I find that interesting
because you see what I know is
your brain is always functioning
at that moment
so it's more of what you focus on
what you focus on
what you are conscious of
I told you my story
what you are conscious of
but then also
when she was also talking I remember
the phenomenon which some doctors
called dissociation
because now I think for her apart from the pain she went through
what could have caused
the near-death experience
and stuff like that was the whole concept of
near-death and then the whole concept
of the trauma she was going through
so some patients tend to get us what they call dissociation
dissociation is like
they say
science will say the conscious
dissociates out of the body
because they don't admit
such a thing as this
I guess we are getting there
so some people come out like that
and then a very good thing also
that I also discovered was
when you talk about but when you came back
you couldn't speak and stuff like that
it actually shows us two things
just minus the trauma
who have been in coma
who have had a
actually stayed long in coma and stuff like that
when they come back
you understand because I think
the body takes it as stress
whether it's light coma or
okay let me put it like this you can go through something
what you went through
and it will push you deep
like someone who has had a weak in coma
or maybe I get my point
as someone because the body just responds
based on how much stress it's handling you
you understand
when they come back
even those who have had near death experiences
and have stayed out for long
they begin learning how to speak a phrase
because that really shows us
the brain had gone
it had really died
some saints actually were inactive
for some time
you understand so you begin
to become like baby steps
I read about one neurosurgeon
who says that
he tried to go back and read books to the sun
and realized it was way
long gone and he couldn't
communicate at all
actually the first time he had to learn
to perceive
to talk and stuff like that
then it's gradual and I think it's the same that happened to you
it's just that
most of these people when they specialize
they think of medicine from one end
some women get what we call a
postpartum psychosis
what do you call
postpartum is period after
after birth
then psychosis is the issue
I don't think it was the concept
of her
you think she actually died
I have a feeling she died
and the brain that place was affected
because a place in you was talking
you understand
postpartum psychosis you can tell someone who is delirious
you understand
so I kind of feel like
a certain place in the brain was affected
you feel like you want to talk from inside
but you can't actually act
and if you don't think that's the concept
if you're trying to examine someone
for
for these are
what we call a psychiatric evaluation
you ask them
now the doctor was asking that's a psychiatric evaluation
you know where you are and
that means that your cognition was okay
you understand
so you didn't match the case
for psychosis
that's the speech
but the speech not coming
but shows us that actually
there was a brain issue
nice
thank god we have a doctor in the house
lucky do you have any questions
we just go on with the story
no no no I think let's go on
because she's going to an interesting part
and she asked
a genuine question and I think this is just
for all of us like you said she asked
whether any of us has been in that place
you know told god man I'm not amused
with this and what so ever and I think
it would just be nice for Christians to know that
god knows us he's the one who created us
he created us in his own image so he understands
because I remember one time
not near death but I remember there was a time
when something happened and I wasn't
really impressed
with god I wasn't amused and I asked so many
questions and then at some point
I was feeling like
am I right to be asking such questions
am I right to be questioning god
he sent me word back through
a prophetess
who called me and told me
god has told me to tell you
it's okay for you to ask questions
because I created you like that
and you have that ability as man
so it's okay for you to ask questions
nice
okay bani take us
continue continue your story is interesting
wow
so I remember
I was really really angry
I really had it with god
honestly
and
I questioned him I told him you know
you've called us to show your glory
how is this glory this is
so I had so many
issues in that time
and after I wailed and cried
and I remember
I think it was
my soul or my spirit
I kept remembering job
and I know it my big
cliché but I
I started to put my
I felt like I really lived what job went through
and I told myself
everything
quaro but do not
cast god
that's the only thing that kept me going
I told myself the moment
you cast him you can be angry
and I remember telling myself
giving myself a pep talk
show him what but don't you dare
and something kept telling me cast him
you know how you feel like
now is your I feel like the devil
had come for me in this moment
and I remember telling
God if I'm done
if you don't show up
today
I will know
that me and you
were never really friends
you know how we say friends of God what
you've had these prophets
it's easy to say it when you haven't gone through a situation
exactly
and I kid you not
I promise
God showed up
he showed up
and
I hold those moments close to my heart
because it meant the world to me
it meant that I mattered
for me I looked at it like
he left
everything else you know how they say
he lives the 99 for the one
and you know we are Christians and we say these things
until you've experienced it
I felt like I could
and I tell you
everyone in that hospital could not believe
I was smiling the next day
I was worshiping
I sat there
okay let me not jump over
I remember when
after having all those conversations
and everything
God appeared to me in a dream
you're still in hospital
from having nightmares and screaming
and finally accepting
wailing and assuring God
to having an encounter
with God in a hospital
where babies are crying
that was the biggest test
of my faith
and I remember telling myself
if I can survive this test
and not curse him
and not say that he does
not exist
I will have past the Christian
test
for me that was it
PhD
not even just masters
PhD
and when God showed up
usually in my dreams and encounters with God
it's majestic and
alpha and omega what
when God showed up
he showed up like a father
and for me it meant a lot to me
because it felt like
it felt like God had come to me
to tell me I'm here
I'm your friend
and embrace I can't explain it to anyone
people have to experience
you see there are things you can't even explain
and
when he showed up I remember his voice
was gentle and kind
and I felt like
there was like water
just calming me
calming my soul down and telling me
it's going to be okay
what did he look like
in all honesty in all the
moments I've had encounters with God
I've always seen the helm of his
garment
all the times I've experienced God
I never saw his
his face per se
and he didn't come
I can't explain it he didn't come in that hope
majestic
it was more of I'm here to wrap you
around me
and let you know
that I've left heaven
to call you mine
and to let you know that I am with you
I have been warning signals
I did tell you because
that always given me
words of prophecy
that my first child would be a boy
and not a girl so
all those things started to play in that moment
of I was with you all through
I gave you a peaceful pregnancy
if I allowed it to happen
it is in my will
and I remembered how why would I call her Ariana
lioness of God
so I started to look at it in a different perspective
I think she was too good for this world
had you been having
had experiences where you were seeing her
in heaven and myself
this was before anything happened
so at least
I remember when she started moving in my belly
I was reading a book called Supernatural
Child Bath
everyone had told me about it
Hebrew Bath what
I sort of slipped off either in my sleep
I think it was a vision
but at least I want to believe I slipped off
and I saw myself surrounded
by people like how would be here
and people were holding their babies
and they were full family
apart from myself
I was holding her and myself
and I thought wait I mean this is not right
I'm not supposed to be here
it seemed like I was in heaven
and I came out from that
I was so scared I started praying as I was telling
I've had people die in child bath
now as I was telling him man
I don't want to die from there
I don't want
but everything started to play out
for me that actually God had communicated
to me he was trying to
sort of tell me I'm here
with you regardless of what
happens it could have been worse
and that's what I kept telling myself
what if I had died with the child
what if all those things now
started to play out and I started saying
you know what God I trust you
I believe that if you allowed this
to happen the way it happened
you still have a purpose for my life
you still want me to tell people
that it's painful it sucks
it's the worst experience
you don't even wish it upon that devil
I'm telling that's how bad it is
you don't wish it upon the worst person
on this planet
no one deserves to carry a child
nine months full term
and not be able to hold their child
it felt like being ripped out of
a heart being ripped out of your chest
but when I
had that moment I remember I told
my husband I had a dream
and God showed up and
I think for him because I keep telling
about this how do you still get
surprised that God shows up for you
but each experience is so
unique it's so different
it speaks to a moment
in your life that
no one would fix
no amount of
therapy no amount of counseling
would help if you don't have
that we tried from the beginning
of your soul and spirit
that's the one thing I learned
I think God showed up because I don't think
any man would have been able to
to sort you out no one
you had such a pure anger
I mean
you know
as a doctor sometimes
I love looking at things
very spiritually
having certain knowledge
when you're looking at someone you begin
to have judgment to weigh the information
ok is what she's saying
one thing I can say is
the first thing when I was looking at you
I was saying
any doctor any scientific person out there
would first ask
is this person cognitive
ok
are they
why am I saying this
even when people have near-death experiences
people come back and check
they
like some such as I've tried to
check on them after 2 years
after 3 years after 4 years and stuff like that
and there's one consistent thing
because one person will say what you have in delirium
cause they're delusions
but if you've been
with someone who
you know that was
postpartum psychosis
they are now hallucinating things
I mean they say there's that place where
the brain
plays numbers
and stuff like that
to comfort and stuff like that
but in such a scenario
if someone is having postpartum psychosis
the cases I have seen
when you talk to the person and tell them
you are speaking and you are not bringing out
they ask you what
I don't know they get my point
when did that happen
you said
you actually told me you had a dream
and you saw this and said what
did I even have a dream and stuff like that
by the mere fact that
even I don't know how long has it been
since then
a year down the road
you still vividly remember
everything
it was not psychosis
if it was psychosis
if you've done
a psychiatric evaluation
for someone who is having psychosis
they have what they call
delusions and delirium
they come up with things
I've seen such a patient before
I mean who one time came out
because it's very very similar
it's a dude who was with the campers
second year or something like that
so he had a brain surgery
so he came back speaking things but
his things were not lining up
he said I made good and stuff like that
because he wanted to say good
he understood
but when they took the guy through
psychiatric therapy and stuff like that
the story wasn't the same
it even changes once someone recovers
I mean a mad person
is not conscious that they're even mad
and psychosis
is like madness
because some mad people
medicine calls it
mania
there's nothing like a diagnosis of mad man
you write it like that they will fire you
put something like
mania or something like that
you get it
by the mere fact that you remember everything
vividly and stuff like that
the dreamer and you can still play it out
and then even after
ever since your husband
has seen you have been
okay you're performing well
you understand you're not out
what say beside yourself
for me it's something
that has stood out
you're literally saying
this was difficult
yes yes yes
from your medical experience
this is the way you get
you're supposed to be part of this
but at that time I was
you were three people
okay alright
go ahead
bring us to the close of your experience
yeah so
the next morning I quickly
tell my husband about it
and pray I remember
even said singing
worship songs were from heaven
I don't know I said coming up with songs
you know seeing and worship
it was sort of my only way
to recover I felt like
spiritually and mentally
yes and I'll tell you
I am a strong advocate
of therapy because I believe
sometimes our brains can be
so jungled up and if I
didn't have a professional come
and tell me okay take me through this
again and again and again
to replay and sort of put
one and one together like you went to theater
you got out of theater you
you ABCD I don't think
I would be in a better place
because also going through the whole
stigma and not being able to say certain
words and and having this
especially sit me down and say
you can actually say
these words it's just
you have a lot of
stress and your brain
a chemical in your brain they would
explain things and even like hey man
scientist
yeah but
towards the end of my stay in
hospital
as mom fashion they invite
prayer people come and pray
and all that so people came
and prayed people came to the room
I remember everyone
kept saying keep away from
babies don't let her
it will remind her of her pain
yet
all I wanted was to be around babies
because it gave me hope
that I would actually one day
realize that that reality
and
maybe scientifically I don't know how you
explain that but they said
we're having baby being around
a child and cry a child crying
it would again trigger I don't know
what trauma and what trauma all those
things yet for me
I felt like the more they took me
through the easier
it became but it wasn't all
rainbows and butterflies
when
when we finally
came to a close of
leaving and everything
it hit me again
that oh my god I'm walking out of this hospital
without my baby
and
I think the walk
from the room
the signing out and everything
it was all okay until I was taken
back to where
we were that day
I came to hospital
it took me like
10 steps back
I
I don't even know how I got in that car
but remember I have a scar
from my C-section
that meanwhile didn't hurt me
one bit
she had such a quick recovery
I left Nance's would come in
and tell me how can you afford a smile
on your face after everything
you've gone through and I remember
if it were not for the grace
of God
if it were not for the Holy Spirit
if it were not for God
holding me together
and keeping me sane
I swear to God I think I'd have lost my mind
so
when we left the hospital
I had the breaking down
and crying and everything
and the advice that I continue
with the therapy
to help me go through the whole
I say there are very many
there are different stages of grief
so they were helping me to accept
to
talk about it and everything
and
like God would have it
He also places people in your life
to sort of help you through a certain season
I had the most
I have the most patient
understanding husband
of he would even make fun
it'd be like
what you want to do
and it would be funny in that moment
but it's also the
sense of humor of
it's okay to cry
if the anniversary
I still mourn her once in a while
it's not like the bandage is ripped off
I'm over it, end of story
I still pray
I still go on my knees
I looked for every scripture to help me heal
I looked for a job
how did the job come through
I want twins
if you let this happen I should get double
so I looked for ways
in scripture
to actually hold God
you promised me you were with me not so
but remember when Job went through this
you gave him double
so now I'm here, I want twin girls
and I sort of also am trusting
now it's your glory at the line
I accepted these things
we talked
I've walked this walk
in one way or another
so we go back home
first forward
of course after I see section
they tell you
at least two years you wait a bit
you heal what
like the Lord would have it
he said no, I got you
I will now
keep my promise
and show you that children are actually
a reward from God
first forward
I go back home
I go through this experience
I'm supposed to face society
people ask me how
people would ask me how is the baby
and you cry
of course you tell them oh she didn't make it
then you go to the bathroom
and have that ugly cry
until good man I thought you had fixed my emotions
I'm back at it again
eventually
I started to face it
my story can actually help people
and then my talked about it
the more women came to me
and told me man I dealt with this
I dealt with that
how did you handle
I was a walking wonder
when I returned to work
everyone was like how
first of all I was intentional
I said I'm not going back looking like
I was nine months pregnant
at least I have to deal with the physical
then I said spiritually
that talk
we say these things of half faith
I told myself
I will tell people I'm okay with tears running down
my eyes
because I have to show them there is a God
and let me tell you in this season I learned
there is a God of emotions
God gives us emotions and he can help you
actually
live with these emotions
we don't always have to run away
from the fact that God knows every little
aspect of our lives
and I walked this journey
and very many women came to me
and told me how did you do it
and I told them God
my family a support system
people who don't judge you
because society is meant to make you believe
if you've lost a child
some might say
it's over
I don't believe that
and let me tell you after what I went through
I realized that God is kind
God is loving
this whole period
he was never absent of the whole situation
and you know what I find interesting
is that you don't know
why you lost the child
and I never asked
why but there's a comfort
that God doesn't give
an explanation
exactly
and I'll be honest
I feel like I had a deeper
I now feel I have a deeper relationship
with God
listen
I pride myself in having a good relationship
with God
I feel like I'm his favorite child
you're going to sit next to him
I know right
oh God I pray
but I really pride myself
in the relationship I've built
in God and seeing things
work out in my life
but this experience
instead of drawing me
farther away from him
I knew
that if God allowed me to live
there was a reason
and I felt like that reason was to tell
women, people out there
that bad things happen to us
but knowing your foundation
and knowing that
God is with me even in this fire
is what makes us Christian
before I bring in
doctor if you have any questions
your medical aspects
have almost run out
but
is there something
based on this experience that changed your perspective
about life
that you didn't have before
what does it say to you about life
after this one
just feed into that
wow
after this experience
I learnt never to take life for granted
because
I felt like it was a second chance
to sort of live
life differently
we take for granted every day that we have
and for me it changed
how
I was a very unforgiving person now
I'm like okay
I may not be as forgiving but I'll forgive
because I don't know what tomorrow holds
when I went through what I went through
and feared that
oh my God I could have died
but would I have died with
forgiveness
would I have died with anger
those are the things that
really transformed me to be the person that I am today
I became a very kind person
I'm even less
I'm less
judgmental
you know when you're Christian and you're living the right life
you'll be like
now
I'm like Lord
find them at their point of need
because I feel like
they found me at the point where
no man
could have helped me
and put back my sanity
and put me back together
I remember saying I'll never laugh again
I'll never talk again
I feel like my life had ended
but for him to show up
on that day
changed everything for me
wow doctor you have anything
I'm not speaking as a
a doctor
what I'm saying has also been seen in medicine
because when you ask that question
I realized
it's also a research that people did
and they realized and they were as smart as me
go ahead
they try to see the impact
most of these near-death experiences
on people and they realized
most of the things she was saying
across teaching
how they never
it's sort of conclusively
they realized
positive impact
the one thing was to love people more
spend more time with family
enjoy every moment
so it tended more to
some sort of spiritual sanity
those who are spiritual
went deeper
of course those who are not spiritual but
they still align with certain laws
that society believes
is a good
love children more
morality basically
that kind of thing
but there was always
positive whatever and when they
cross checked after 2 years
1 year, 3 years, 4 years
down the road
some even pursued other
career pathes and stuff like that
so it sort of became a goal
it's one thing to know that there's life after
but it's another thing to
have experienced it
no but first of all
thank you very much because
you're a strong woman and I say that as a guy
and as a man, you're a very strong woman
and thank you for sharing your story
because for us as men
we now see things
from a different light but again
thank you for being not just a strong woman
but a strong believer
because you know there are a number of people
who go through similar scenarios
and for some it's even not them
who are the primary
person who is going through this
maybe say you've lost
your loved one
but your perception towards
God can easily switch
now when she was sharing she said
at some point she kept asking for help
along the way
because it's easy for us to think
at some point okay I've built myself
I'm this and this and this and like she said
at the end of the day until you go through
something like that is when you realize
it's not by your power, not by your will
you need a helper
and you shared this before we are helped
you need to realize that at some point
you need God to help you
you know cross certain
stages and then she brought
to light an interesting aspect of
the different aspects of God
like his different offices
there's where he'll come to you as a father
that's different from where he comes to you as a king
that's true
that's where he comes to you different as you know
the commander in chief
so again at the end of the day
just because he showed up as the father
does not mean he's going to let certain things
slide because
that's true
it's one thing I've had because
your story ends on a good note
and I want you to tell what the good note is
but
I always find it very interesting that
it seems to me like these experiences
that people have
they're not the same
even though they might look
similar and it seems to me like
I don't know
God doesn't give reasons why
but some of the experiences that people have
have a lot to do
with them
they're almost like subjective
that are tailored
to change the life of a person
that's true
just go ahead and
finish the story for us as we come to a conclusion
let me try and make it quick
because you said something
that triggered
I've always, I love love children
that's no secret from all my friends
so most of my
high school and then
university people would be like
you may not even have kids
and I'm like fire in the name of Jesus
no, I will have children
why would someone say something like that
no, you know people growing up
I always want to have an NGO
for children or fans
I'm drawn to children
so when this experience
happened to me
I was asking me do you still trust me
enough to build that dream
when you don't have a child
do you still
trust me enough to give you a child
or is the child your ultimate
goal
can you worship me
above a child
or am I still God
over every situation in your life
and
when it happened I remember of course
I was still dealing with mourning and everything
I told myself wait a minute
God will still get the glory
I'll veil
myself to tell my story
I'll start a foundation
and I called that
Ariela's Dream Foundation
I called it Ariela's Dream Foundation
it's still in the making
but I wanted it to help specifically women
who deal with miscarriages
death
still births
women who feel like
giving them the light of day
to cancel them
and I know most hospitals don't do this
most hospitals don't do it
they pack your things and say bye
on to the next
but this experience can damage a person
you can either go to one extreme
or the other extreme
and you find mothers
or people who have gone through it
and it's not unique to first time mothers
even mothers who have had children
and I had these conversations with mothers
and you find a mother who has four kids
but they lost one child in the middle
and they tell you after that I lost my love for children
I don't want to try again
so it's for me it was
that whole aspect of what do we not
have in the world
enough of
and that's giving people
a window to actually be honest
and say you know what you guys
me I contemplated suicide
me I was on this drug
me I dealt with it this way
where are we as Christians
in areas where there is a gap
yes we are focusing on women empowerment
women empowerment
without actually getting to the depth
of the issues they deal with
women miscarry and they are told keep quiet
no one will ever know
but you don't know what it does to this person
it scars them
they may be having nightmares
they may be having fear
and that fear can even cause another miscarry
so those are things that I feel
in Africa
we've not given it a day of light
because it's sensitive
or what will people think about me
and that's what I made up my mind
I said I will be an ambassador
to let people know that yes it happens
and it has not made me less
of a woman it hasn't made me less
of a child of God
it hasn't I didn't do anything wrong
cause people have this idea what did you do
maybe you did this maybe you did
no no no cause our God is not a God
who I don't find God as a God of wrath
he's not vengeful
he's kind he's loving
not to excuse what we do
but in that experience
I got so much revelation
and that's how it has helped me
and I'm thankful to God
that it helped me
but the testimony is still not yet done
so shortly after that
when we returned home
and finally went back
about our normal business of work
I found out
three months later after this experience
and now that I think of it
three months of spiritual
three months after this experience
that I was pregnant
again
worst experience of my life
with a baby boy
called Nathaniel
you had received prophecies about this
I had received prophecies about my child
and how it would be a healthy boy
and all those things
my pregnancy was nothing close to healthy
I was a mess
like I was the extreme opposite of what I was
the first time and that's the thing about God
you know we take these things for granted
we think if I got
if I was okay the other time I think God will just
compass it huh he was like now
you're going to have that nausea you are there bragging
you're going to have that nausea you're going to have that
he should have already eaten
and I went through it and by God's grace
we were blessed with a bouncing baby boy
wow what's his name
Nathaniel
Vulcan
Tim
how did you come up with the name Nathaniel?
now
interesting story
make it brief
so we are struggling with the name Nathaniel
because
we wanted to know for sure that this was
a name that God had allowed us to
name our child
knowing the mothers we already made up our minds
the Vulcan meant rainbow
rainbow means a child who comes after a storm
a night
yeah we are deep like that
intentional
yeah we're very intentional
so on the day I'm
rolled into theater
my husband who's very spiritual
yes he is
just throwing that out there
opens the Bible
and lands on a vase
that had Nathaniel
and it spoke about Nathaniel's
history and how he was my disciple
of Christ he knows the detail more than I
do
I just got to say this is the one
so when I come out of theater
he had his confirmation
that Nathaniel will actually be Nathaniel
and we thank God for that
oh wow
wow
for what you lost God compensated
yes he did
and I believe that your
daughter is still alive
in a better place
and well
yeah
I was confused
because I think we met when you were pregnant
yes
let me give you
now
when he met me
I had gone there for another issue
I didn't confirm that I was pregnant
so I told him about my
I had an issue
I didn't go into that detail
but I think God is going to give you a boy
and I went back to my husband and I was like
no
and then when we found out we were pregnant
coincidentally ended up going to
a hospital that he worked at
so God always does
so I was like
when she was saying
that the pregnancy was fine
I kept saying you're not pregnant
the first one
I didn't know you lost a child
I kept thinking
maybe that's a lie
or something
when you said
then I'm perhaps seeing you with a baby
so when you say this is another child
she came to speak
and it happened so quickly between
the loss and then three months later you're pregnant
that's what I usually tell you to take three months without
having
without doing the dairy
yeah to avoid
because the C-section
by the way
they say if you have a C-section between
those short periods
but I'll tell you by God's grace
I recover quickly
I have not had complications due to that
so
the glory goes back to God
she came to the hospital
and I had to pray for them
say you guys
any final words because
you want us to close up
that's a nice way to end the story
because I'm sure someone
who could be watching this
you know you watch it with a hunky
and you just pray God let this happen
let this happen
no but
something that she said
and
my sister went through a similar thing
oh wow
and she also had a miscarriage on her first baby
now the point is
she also has
a strong love for children
and walking with children
and things like that
you understand
so it's a similar thing
but when you are saying that
one thing just came to mind
you can always be tested
in our area of
and calling
and how you choose to respond
dictates
your next step
and how the door will open for you
you know moving forward
because if you say
you love children
and you want to walk with children
and things like that
that's the area where you'll be tested
to prove that you actually
love this
so
for me that's what I picked
and it's amazing
just thank you so much again
I'm going to ask you to say your final words
to guests
because the purpose as to why we've had this session
is primarily
to show people that
while a large section of science
thinks that near-death experiences are just
physiological
kind of experiences
they are now two schools of thought
after so much research
they don't know yet
why
there are so many theories
but there's one group
actually doctors advocating
and helping people through it and stuff like that
that actually I believe that these things exist
the reason I think I told you why we never had
much of them back then was
we didn't have things to resuscitate people
just before they die for a short time and come back
but now with what has come up
there are doctors that believe
there's a society
there's a council
majority don't actually
and they don't even have to be Christian
they just believe that there's some others
and so the reason why we brought this up
was I think the conversation is interesting
these experiences don't just happen
in Canada, USA
they understand people think near-death experiences
and specific area
they're all over the world
we have people close to us who have had them
we've picked a few
this is the first session we're having
and first experience we're hearing
there's going to be another experience we're going to have
but I want people out there to realize that
the Bible says there's a strange statement
that is in Scripture
written by the wise man Solomon
in Ecclesiastes
he says it is better
to go to a funeral
than to a feast
I said what?
you know that Scripture?
then he says
for when you go to a funeral
you think about life
and so it's discussions like this
knowing that there's a life after this
when you hear the experiences of other people
it opens you up
but I'd like you to give your last word
then we'll go to Bani and we'll close this off
wow
for me it's a lot of learning
I won't lie
I've sat here
as a doctor it never happens
as a doctor to just listen and stuff like that
but I would say
from what I've read on top of what she says
one these things are there
they have been there many years back then
it's not now
there's no stuff like that
and all in all
I think also personally
she told me about this and stuff like that
I like to know
I went to it but I realized that
they might have read people's stories
they were more
being changed more
they understand
and I realized at the end of the day
it changes the whole perspective of life
the whole perspective
your value system
even to us the readers
they understand
I mean Jesus
one time
someone told
the rich guy
sent someone from the dead
to go and tell them
and then Jesus said
they would not listen
he didn't say I can't
you understand
that means
I mean I've sent people before
and still they don't listen
you understand
so
but for me
when you read these stories here
it's
you change your whole value system
I mean they were good looks at things
and stuff like that
and I'm so happy
and inspired for
and excited for what you're going to do for children
alright
and meanwhile soon come right
better do something for children
alright
and Bernie your last words
in style to really
pinpoint
look into the camera
speak to someone out there
what's on your heart
what you want your story to reflect
okay
for me
it's just to encourage
women out there
people out there
who have an experience
that
your experience can change life
lives
not just one life
but your experience can touch people
and
I think it's important that we be
authentic
and be honest
and be
open to sharing our stories
because you just don't know
which life you'll be saving
and how many you'll lead to Christ
and also to remind people that
God is real
his love
his kind
and regardless of what you're going through
or what you have gone through
he's always there to hold you
through it all
that's it for me
alright
Mrs. Josephine, Bernie
or Tim
thank you so much
for your testimony
thank you for having me
Dr. George
we're going to have you back
this is part one
we're going to have a part two
where we're going to listen to the story
then we'll also have a chance
hopefully to dive
dive deeper into
some biblical aspects
are there near death
experiences in the Bible
wow
Afimani McLean
thank you for being a co-host
see you next time
God bless